Very well said and truer words have n ever been spoken.

That's a very interesting dollar comparison. The problem is that 20 years ago I got and XLT Lariat for the dollars that would buy me an XL model today. But my Lariat has the quad shock front end, 5.8L, LS 3.55 axles, roof clearance lights, manual hubs and few other goodies. What's today's money going to get me for 26K? XL package, Reg axles, painted bumpers, basic 4x4, small V-8 and a vinyl maybe cloth seat. Theres nothing wrong with a plain truck, fewer problems in the long run. The dollar is siimply not stretching as far as it did 20 years ago. I earn great money and a ton more than I did in 1988 and I feel as though I'm still out of the new truck market. Thank God Ford builds a great truck.

Tim

 

You can't compare prices from 20 years ago unless you also adjust the prices for inflation. The dollar is worth half as much today, if that much, so you'll need to at least double the price you paid 20 years ago to make a fair comparison and look at what you're getting for the price. Its not an apples to apples comparison. 20 years ago they didn't have fully boxed frames, 4 air bags, 5 star crash rating, better radios, etc. The 4.6 3V puts out a lot more power than the 5.8 did, and the tow ratings are much higher now. Higher strength steel in the cab and frame. Better sound insulation. Better exhausts (even the exhaust manifolds are much better). Tow stability built into the computer. 4 wheel anti-lock disc brakes. The interior build quality is also light years ahead. The interior build quality of the F150 has often been compared to high end cars. Customer satisfaction is also way up compared to 20 years ago.

Dollar for dollar, adjusted for inflation, I'd say we're probably getting more for our money now, thanks to advances in technology making many of these things cheaper to produce.

 

People do tend to buy what is on the lot but you need to look closer. Dealers try to order the vehicles based on what they think the buying public wants. When the dealer stocks a plain Jane 4X2 truck with a six and standard transmission, the only way he is able to move them is at fire sale prices. The profit margin does not matter if you can't sell the truck.

A lot of people buy based on what their monthly payment is going to be. Based on a six year loan, a nicely equipped truck with V8/automatic/4X4 and other options will cost them less than $100 per month more than a stripper. Most people figure driving a nice truck rather than a stripper is worth the difference. Also, a six cylinder 4X2 with a standard transmission is almost impossible to sell or trade with a reasonable return. They stay in the For Sale classifieds for months.

 

That reminded me of what my dealer said when i ordered my truck. He said that if i ordered it and didnt like it when it turned up that he would just stick it on the lot as a truck that spec when it hits the lot sells within a couple f days. He also said that they dont really stock lower end trucks as many people dont ask for them. That would prob explain why there are so many basic trucks in these lots left and all the nice ones have gone.

 

I know what he said I did already do a direct quote. What do you think he means? Sounds to me like if they didnt have the nice models (read: only XL's on the lot), then he'd also have to buy a car because he doesnt want to drive around a POS on his own time. I dont undertsand what you dont get about that. Were talking about new models on the lot not some rusted out 20 yr old truck. perhaps we should ask Bsimmer to clarify... did you maybe word it wrong and meant to say if they only had an XL with a stick shift that it would be a wonderful truck and you wouldnt have to buy another car since the truck wouldnt be a pos right?


Yes I did pull them out of thin air. Actually others I beleive pulled them out of thin air I was just repeating what others said that 99.9% of folks dont want a stick shift or base madel trucks. Do you think the number is less? Then youd be on my side... I think there are a lot of folks out there who still like a truck thats not bloated, although the numbers are probably diminishing.


Yes of course. I cant argue with the trend. However in the case of the SD it makes more sense since the autos have higher towing capacity and most folks with a SD are using them to haul. I'll never be pushing the limits of the manual so its just fine for me as far as towing capacity.


I think you have missed the point. And I have already stated that the decked out models are where ford is making there money and they need every bit they can right now. But are you really going to call me two sided because I have an XL with cloth seats, as if thats super luxurious lol? yeah cruise is one thing I cant live without. So I hope I can still get cruise without it only being available packaged with rear-view camera and GPS navigation! And like osbornk said above I took what was on the lot, I was not interested in all the options that came with the truck but trying to find a 4x4 thats not loaded is slim pickings. The next time I hope to order from the factory, and not be in a pinch without a vehicle. And talk to the person who threw the stone. I dont really think I have thin skin... I mean I'm the one driving the stick shift with manual crank windows in the world of power-everything, but I suppose I get a bit defensive when another ford truck enthusiast thinks so lowly of another ford truck just because its not loaded. If its not his cup of tea thats fine, but no need to insult others by calling them a pos.

 

Just so you know, you are all insane and the world is going to end...oh yea, God drives a 97-03 F-150...Thank you, please tip your waitresses.

 

I think you have missed the point. And I have already stated that the decked out models are where ford is making there money and they need every bit they can right now. But are you really going to call me two sided because I have an XL with cloth seats, as if thats super luxurious lol? yeah cruise is one thing I cant live without. So I hope I can still get cruise without it only being available packaged with rear-view camera and GPS navigation! And like osbornk said above I took what was on the lot, I was not interested in all the options that came with the truck but trying to find a 4x4 thats not loaded is slim pickings. The next time I hope to order from the factory, and not be in a pinch without a vehicle. And talk to the person who threw the stone. I dont really think I have thin skin... I mean I'm the one driving the stick shift with manual crank windows in the world of power-everything, but I suppose I get a bit defensive when another ford truck enthusiast thinks so lowly of another ford truck just because its not loaded. If its not his cup of tea thats fine, but no need to insult others by calling them a pos.[/quote]

Thank you for saying that! I still drive an '88 with straight stick, crank windows, manual locking hubs, dual exhaust and big tires and I love the looks I get from people who think my beloved rig is a POS or are simply amazed that something so old is still running like a dog with it's *** on fire.

I'm talking about the people who drive a 4x4 with 24's stuffed in the wheel wells, never been off road and is used as a grocery getter. I ride thier a$$ on the highway until they move over! I just can't help myself.

Tim

 

Fortunately most people on this earth don't have an existence so boring that they have to get their jollies doing something like that. When I see someone doing something like that on the highway its not the vehicle I think poorly of....

 

People buy what they want, and you can't fault someone for wanting options, or not wanting them, especially if you have any options. That's what I meant by it. You have standards (by this I mean "wants"), and others may have lower or higher standards. Just because someone wants more doesn't make their choice any less (or more) important than yours or mine.

My point exactly. For others, its a waste of money.

Maybe you're referring to someone else, because I never said it was lowly. I have owned everything from a completely stripped down 1967 F100 (and a stripped 75 for a while) to a fully loaded King Ranch F250. Its not a reflection of the person's standing, simply what they bought.

Let me ask you a question... what is a POS in your opinion? If you saw a truck going down the road with a wobbly front wheel and the middle of the bed completely gone from rust... and the seats about ready to fall through a rusted floor, would you consider it a POS? Like many things in life, judgement calls about how good something is isn't defined in absolute terms, but rather relative to one's own situation. My first car, when I was 16, was the greatest thing on 4 wheels to me at the time... but looking back now... it was a POS. Doesn't reduce how much fun it was, or the memories, but it sure wasn't much. One of my 3 trucks is a Ranger, and some folks don't consider it a "real" truck. So, its just their opinion... doesn't impact my driving it one bit and it doesn't insult me at all.

 

At that point i would have breaked nice and hard so that you was in the bed of me grocery getter

 

Bravo!

 

Ok this is starting to go to far. 2 things... One, I am not saying you think lowly of my truck or anyones choices. I called out Bsimmer for saying that. I could care less what you or he thinks about a truck really, but when someone publicly mock a truck on an forum like this that is supposed to be for Ford Truck Enthusiasts, then I am going to speak up. Second, you say folks buy the options they want. Yes and no. As others have said most people buy whats on the lot which means theyre more than likely getting extra or not enough, depending on how far they deviate from what the dealer has ordered. Now, they are bundling more things together, so some people are forced to pay more and take more options than they dont want, or vice versa. If that move saves ford a lot of money well then they got to do what they got to do.

What is a POS in my opinion? I dont know, I dont call folks trucks a POS. Even if they are a rusted out hulk like my bronco, to me theyre just a diamond in the rough.

 

To me, any vehicle that's a safety hazard on the roads (ie, couldn't pass a safety inspection without major work), would be considered a POS. This goes for any vehicle, brand, etc., and it has nothing to do with options, how it looks, price, etc.

 

I usually do not post in this forum due to the fact that i no longer own an F-1anything.. but i was browsing and couldn't resist reading all the flaming going on in this thread! hehe

My suggestion to Ford is they should do more work in the Research and Development Depts. and ask the consumers what they would like to see or would like to have more of in their pick em up trucks. N****N does alot of reaching out to their previous buyers and the public in general to ask what they would like in their trucks.. hence the reason they have 4+ cup holders(between the front 2 seats alone) and tons of overhead compartments for storing who knows what! but they put it there anyways just so we could put **** in it!...simply because the consumers suggested it!

I think Ford needs to do the same.. why couldn't we have had bed's with pre-sprayed liners with rails that were adjustable for hooking down towstraps almost anywhere.. and 4+ cupholders upfront..and overhead compartments stretching back almost 4 feet.. N****N had that **** 4 years ago if not more! ahh and that sweet little locking box just behind the rear tires that very nicely holds all sorts of Towing/Hauling Gear! I don't own a N****N but my friend does.. what a nice truck with tons of appealing features!

Simply put! I think Ford needs to contact people who have bought a ford in the past X amount of years and ask for them to help make their vehicles better and more appealing for their previous (and hopefully future) buyers!

 

Just my 2 cents, but with an intelligent A-6 on the horizon, why would anyone want a straight shift trans? I understand to keep the cost down, but its so much easier changing atf 2x every 100k miles than possibly haveing a slave or master cylinder crapping out. Clutch will more than likely make atleast 100k, but still the technology has come around on these auto's. Now they are as good or better than the sticks we shifted 10 yrs ago.