hi,

Let me introduce myself. I'm from the Netherlands and I'm 16 years old. A few months ago I bought a 1951 f100 f1 which I'm going to rebuild. I've completly taken it apart. My dad and me found out that the chassis is bent is this a real problem? I've another question the chassis is put together with rivets/staples should those be replaced or can we just weld the crossmembers to the main frame?

thanks,

 

Welcome!!! Great hearing from the younger generation about the old trucks, especially when it's a father son build. The frame can always be straightend or cut out and replaced. No you don't have to put rivets back in. I would use grade 8 bolts and bolt it back together. I wouldn't weld it in case you wanted to change something or take some other part out (like a trans) then what? That would be alot of work to put a clutch plate in for instance. PS Need pics. We love pics. Got to have pics. The avatar, is that your truck? Looks pretty good.

 

Neither welds nor bolts are as good as the riveted joints, providing they are in good shape, and the metal under them is solid.

 

ok thanks,

right now the chassis isn't that strong is it better to box it in or what should i do?

 

Depends on what you're planning. The original rivets will be fine, as long as they are nor rusted out insode. Take a hammer and a punch, and tap them to see if they crumble. The frame would fine without boxing, as long as you are not going the route of monster horsepower. If you're staying stock, or close to it, then you will be just fine. Grade 8 bolts are fine in place of the rivets, and better than welding. Keep the rivets, but if you have to replace them, use the grade 8 bolts.

 

the chassis is in this condition so are the rivets in good shape?

 

sorry i can't get a picture in my reply

 

 

Welcome! Rivets are designed to hold a high shear load while not being totally fixed in place. That makes them great for frames that have flexible steel. (such as the frame you have) Bolts have a higher pulling load as opposed to a shear load, which makes them great for holding two pieces together and prevent them from pulling apart, but are not as good as a frame rivet that takes a side force. (does that wording make sense?) Welding a regular frame will cause cracking as the weld makes the steel brittle. Boxing the frame would benefit most with an independent suspension. Regular leafs benefit with the frame being able to flex. As a test, put a long rivet in a vise and whack it sideways with a hammer. Then take a bolt and do the same. Which moves more easily? Then try it with a welded piece of steel, and see if the same hammering will break it apart. In the pic, they don't look bad.

We put weld tabs on our pieces of steel at work, and it doesn't take much to knock them off...and that's with a solid weld bead.

 

That thing is pretty crusty looking. I wouldn't do anything until it's completely apart and thoroughly media blasted right down to bare metal. That way you will know just what you have to work with.

I have to respectfully disagree with others here. Rivets had their place in time but they have long since gone the way of the Dinasoaurs. They do not use them in much anymore. I recently
dissassembled a big semi truck frame and it was all bolted. that thing had to be at least twenty years old. They don't use rivets in structural steel anymore either. they haven't used them in
ships for the last fifty years. High strength bolts and moderm welding have taken their place. I can't think of anything that takes a bigger beating than excavating eauipment which is entirely
assembled with bolts and welds. As far as making the steel brittle around a weld is concerned, they have ways of taking care of that problem. I spent a year doing stress welding work on a
new power plant that is subjected ot extreme pressure and stress. All heavy equipment trailers are all welded frames. It's all in the engineering. Take a look at a modern crane derrick, it's all welded.

Later Man...

 

My intention was not to say to replace all rivets with rivets, just that if the rivets are good, I'd leave them in.

 

Yeah, I sure wouldn't replace them for no reason either. I wasn't really thinking about what you as much as another.

Later Man...

 

Dave, this rivet-vs-bolt thing has been beaten to death before, try a search to review the discussion. While each has their strong points, F-1 chassis's were designed around the use of rivets. The whole point is that the properties of rivets are not the same as properties of bolts, and vice versa.

 

I realize that but you said, and I quote,

"Neither welds nor bolts are as good as the riveted joints, providing they are in good shape, and the metal under them is solid."
Maybe I misunderstood, but that seem to me to say they are superior, or at least I took it that way.

As for being designed that way, everything was back then. THey didn't have automated welding systems and training riveters was a lot easier than training welders. It was also quicker and cheaper. I don't think it is better, it was just the best way they had then.

Later man...

 

Hey, welcome to the world that is FTE. good luck as you undertake this project. Start with a good cleaning, and evaluate each inch of the truck. Catalog everything, and determine what you are going to do. If you are restoring the truck, customizing it, making it a 100 point show piece, you have to come up with a plan. I have killed three usable cabs in my semi project, because I didn't lay my plan down and just went with it. Get a plan, look at pictures, and come up with your goal. Ask lots of questions, and remember, the only stupid question is the one that's never asked. Again, good luck on the project. There are 100's of opinions here, and no one on this board is right all the time. You will get answers all over the map, and you will get frustrated, pissed off, embarassed, you name it. Don't let people tell you how to do your truck, you do it the way you want. Let these people share their triumphs, and their failures, so that you can go into this game with the wisdom of a thousand generations. I do agree, that your trucks frame is in desperate need of a very thorough cleaning and stripping. Perhaps, after doing that, you will know the answer to your question. If you choose to bolt it back together, make sure to use at least grade 8 bolts. If you weld it, be careful, these frames WERE NOT designed to be welded up all over the place. If you choose to use rivets, then contact FTE member C700, as he has taken the time and energy and replaced all the rivets in his C-700's frame with concours correct hot rivets.