Convert to Triton Engine to CNG
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From: Spring Lake
Convert to Triton Engine to CNG
The more I look into this the more I want to convert my SD to CNG. Anyone know about pre-existing kits, what this entails, if it's even possible on the stock motor, or have done this before?
I know on my old '86 460 it had a kit offered from ford for either a CNG or propane conversion (I don;t remember which)
Fuel prices are killing me, and with Fall and winter rolling in I won't be able to offest my fuel costs by riding my bike when I don't need the truck. Need an alternative fast, cuz I can't even sell my truck for what I owe and get something I can afford to drive.
Its sad, when I bought the beast I could drive her from Flint to Grand Rapids and back on $30... now on my bike it costs me $35 to make that trip
It's a tragic reality... hope we'll come up with something to make all of our lives easier though!
I know on my old '86 460 it had a kit offered from ford for either a CNG or propane conversion (I don;t remember which)
Fuel prices are killing me, and with Fall and winter rolling in I won't be able to offest my fuel costs by riding my bike when I don't need the truck. Need an alternative fast, cuz I can't even sell my truck for what I owe and get something I can afford to drive.
Its sad, when I bought the beast I could drive her from Flint to Grand Rapids and back on $30... now on my bike it costs me $35 to make that trip
It's a tragic reality... hope we'll come up with something to make all of our lives easier though!
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,564
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From: Wayyy NoCal, USA
I'm also interested and will be watching this thread. There are some home CNG refueling rigs that make it a pretty slick system.
Yes, CNG power will result in some power and range losses, but I don't need those all the time. Run CNG most of the time, gasoline when I need to pull.
There are a lot of conversion kits for older carb'd vehicles as that was an easy conversion. Haven't found anything for the modular fords yet.
Yes, CNG power will result in some power and range losses, but I don't need those all the time. Run CNG most of the time, gasoline when I need to pull.
There are a lot of conversion kits for older carb'd vehicles as that was an easy conversion. Haven't found anything for the modular fords yet.
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Fayetteville, AR
Alternative Fuel Conversion Systems supplied by Campbell-Parnell, Inc., fka ParnellUSA
technocarb.com - EPA Certified LPG Conversion Kits
The government has gotten very, very involved, due to safety and pollution issues of home-made installations. This sort of chaps my behind, because all the taco trucks I see driving around Houston with 40# LP tanks bungeed to their bumpers aren't government approved. How safe is that?
5.4L 3V engines are qualified in several vehicles, but it's a year-by-year, vehicle-by-vehicle process.
I keep hoping this can be turned into a political issue-- Why can't we EPA qualify an engine and evaporation control system and then add "same as but different" safety engineering for LP tanks on vehicles?
BTW, there seems to be quite a gray market in these installations-- seems like a good idea until you imagine getting into an accident and the lawyers get their teeth into you...
I would love to convert my SD to bi-fuel LP||gasoline, BTW. Cost of $6k, but no certification as of yet.
technocarb.com - EPA Certified LPG Conversion Kits
The government has gotten very, very involved, due to safety and pollution issues of home-made installations. This sort of chaps my behind, because all the taco trucks I see driving around Houston with 40# LP tanks bungeed to their bumpers aren't government approved. How safe is that?
5.4L 3V engines are qualified in several vehicles, but it's a year-by-year, vehicle-by-vehicle process.
I keep hoping this can be turned into a political issue-- Why can't we EPA qualify an engine and evaporation control system and then add "same as but different" safety engineering for LP tanks on vehicles?
BTW, there seems to be quite a gray market in these installations-- seems like a good idea until you imagine getting into an accident and the lawyers get their teeth into you...
I would love to convert my SD to bi-fuel LP||gasoline, BTW. Cost of $6k, but no certification as of yet.
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Back in high school I was on a team that converted a gasoline powered go cart to run on CNG. Another team converted a go cart to run on electricity. It was pretty easy to convert to CNG. Replace the fuel tank with a CNG cylinder, add a pressure regulator and change the carburetor. That was about it. Of coarse with computer controlled fuel injection, mass airflow sensors and O2 sensors it will be a larger project.
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From: Spring Lake
Also, even if my return takes me a year or 3, in the short run I'll benefit by being able to travel.
I'm still a believer that gas will return to the low $2 a gallon range eventually... (yes this comment can spawn thousands of counter arguments but really the only way to know is to wait and see so lets keep it off the forum) but until it gets back there I need an out.
Worst case scenario i spend my money on physical hardware that doesn;t pay itself off... but I'd at least have something to show for the loss. Which I would say is more valuable than giving some oil company my hard earned dollars.
Until something changes, I'm thinking about changing my FTE username to '5.4L Ball and Chain'
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Fayetteville, AR
But, the answer to your question is, "Less than 2000 gallons." Assuming a $1 difference in gallon-of-gasoline energy equivalents and 10 miles per gallon equivalent the break-even mileage would be ... 60,000 miles.
An EPA cert nets the owner a tax rebate, which is one more reason why it matters.
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Joined: May 2008
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One thing to remember about CNG if you use your rig for any kind of towing, CNG has 64% of the energy in gasoline resulting in a power loss of 15-25%. Also, with CNG you will typically lose about 15~25% of the mileage you got on gasoline.
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Joined: Sep 2005
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From: St Lawrence PA
I work for a client that is a distributor of motor fuels that believes that CNG is the fuel of the future. The economics are the same mileage for about 1/3 the cost. But there are some difficulties. The kits are CARB rated per engine year. You can buy the kits and install but you have to be certified to install the DOT tank. They sell a home refueler but if you travel more than 80 miles a day, the home refueler rebuild cost kills you. If you refill at a commercial facility, the fill generates so much heat you can only refill about 80%, thus reducing your range. You almost need to fill up in the afternoon and then top of refueling in the morning to get the maximum range.
All my good information is on my computer at work. I will try to gather that Mondaywhen I return to the office. But I will try to answer questions now as they are posted.
All my good information is on my computer at work. I will try to gather that Mondaywhen I return to the office. But I will try to answer questions now as they are posted.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 123
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From: Fayetteville, AR
FTE alternate fuel forum
Note the presence of a forum specifically for the subject at hand:
Alternate Fuels Forum
Although dominated by biodiesel, some LP|CNG threads exist.
Alternate Fuels Forum
Although dominated by biodiesel, some LP|CNG threads exist.
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,101
Likes: 40
From: Pa
Yes, I do. But keep in mind between the bike and truck I put on 45K miles a year. Also, from what I've read CNG is $.87 per gallon, and gets you a $3000 Federal tax credit. Then considering I get 13 mpg on a good day, and tank of gas is roughly $150 it's not a bad gig.
Also, even if my return takes me a year or 3, in the short run I'll benefit by being able to travel.
I'm still a believer that gas will return to the low $2 a gallon range eventually... (yes this comment can spawn thousands of counter arguments but really the only way to know is to wait and see so lets keep it off the forum) but until it gets back there I need an out.
Worst case scenario i spend my money on physical hardware that doesn;t pay itself off... but I'd at least have something to show for the loss. Which I would say is more valuable than giving some oil company my hard earned dollars.
Until something changes, I'm thinking about changing my FTE username to '5.4L Ball and Chain'
Also, even if my return takes me a year or 3, in the short run I'll benefit by being able to travel.
I'm still a believer that gas will return to the low $2 a gallon range eventually... (yes this comment can spawn thousands of counter arguments but really the only way to know is to wait and see so lets keep it off the forum) but until it gets back there I need an out.
Worst case scenario i spend my money on physical hardware that doesn;t pay itself off... but I'd at least have something to show for the loss. Which I would say is more valuable than giving some oil company my hard earned dollars.
Until something changes, I'm thinking about changing my FTE username to '5.4L Ball and Chain'
Sounds like you don't need a SD in the first place. If you can get where your going with a motorcycle you shure as he!! don't need a SD. With your yearly mileage sounds like a smaller car is a much better investment than trying to get cheaper operating costs out of the SD. In the end you will still have a car you can sell, if need be.
I think your dreaming if you think gas will go down to $2 a gallon. Your still giving an oil company $$$, where do you think CNG comes from? Once CNG becomes more mainstream and demand gets higher CNG cost will rise.
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Fayetteville, AR
CNG is only different from generated methane (or 'fart gas', so called) by geologic time; chemically I believe they're identical. This stuff is currently going to waste in landfills around the country. And, I strongly suspect pig farmers' neighbors would love to have us capture it and burn it in our cars to keep it out of their nostrils!
Short-chain hydrocarbons, such as ethanol and methane are interesting to me in their simplicity and in relative ease of integration into our existing engine technology.
I'm even wondering if a dedicated LP|CNG vehicle could do without catalytic converters and still pass CARB...
P.S.: I forgot to mention all the fuel vapor recovery hardware for both vehicles and stations. Currently gasoline pumps are supposed to only allow one drop of fuel to spill when pulling the nozzle from the vehicle and replacing it back onto the pump IIRC.
Last edited by Mark W. Ingalls; Sep 5, 2008 at 09:38 AM. Reason: P.S.: __
Former ******
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,901
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From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Still, and all, those with "needs" are interested in the prospect of a retrofitted alternative fuel system that will allow us to use domestically produced sources.
CNG is only different from generated methane (or 'fart gas', so called) by geologic time; chemically I believe they're identical. This stuff is currently going to waste in landfills around the country. And, I strongly suspect pig farmers' neighbors would love to have us capture it and burn it in our cars to keep it out of their nostrils!
Short-chain hydrocarbons, such as ethanol and methane are interesting to me in their simplicity and in relative ease of integration into our existing engine technology.
I'm even wondering if a dedicated LP|CNG vehicle could do without catalytic converters and still pass CARB...
CNG is only different from generated methane (or 'fart gas', so called) by geologic time; chemically I believe they're identical. This stuff is currently going to waste in landfills around the country. And, I strongly suspect pig farmers' neighbors would love to have us capture it and burn it in our cars to keep it out of their nostrils!
Short-chain hydrocarbons, such as ethanol and methane are interesting to me in their simplicity and in relative ease of integration into our existing engine technology.
I'm even wondering if a dedicated LP|CNG vehicle could do without catalytic converters and still pass CARB...
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: Fayetteville, AR
Bear River Converters - Wholesale distributors of catalytic converters
Bear River's post and the above link typifies why I like this forum.
Thanks, Bear River.
Bear River's post and the above link typifies why I like this forum.
Thanks, Bear River.
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,101
Likes: 40
From: Pa
Still, and all, those with "needs" are interested in the prospect of a retrofitted alternative fuel system that will allow us to use domestically produced sources.
CNG is only different from generated methane (or 'fart gas', so called) by geologic time; chemically I believe they're identical. This stuff is currently going to waste in landfills around the country. And, I strongly suspect pig farmers' neighbors would love to have us capture it and burn it in our cars to keep it out of their nostrils!
Short-chain hydrocarbons, such as ethanol and methane are interesting to me in their simplicity and in relative ease of integration into our existing engine technology.
I'm even wondering if a dedicated LP|CNG vehicle could do without catalytic converters and still pass CARB...
P.S.: I forgot to mention all the fuel vapor recovery hardware for both vehicles and stations. Currently gasoline pumps are supposed to only allow one drop of fuel to spill when pulling the nozzle from the vehicle and replacing it back onto the pump IIRC.
CNG is only different from generated methane (or 'fart gas', so called) by geologic time; chemically I believe they're identical. This stuff is currently going to waste in landfills around the country. And, I strongly suspect pig farmers' neighbors would love to have us capture it and burn it in our cars to keep it out of their nostrils!
Short-chain hydrocarbons, such as ethanol and methane are interesting to me in their simplicity and in relative ease of integration into our existing engine technology.
I'm even wondering if a dedicated LP|CNG vehicle could do without catalytic converters and still pass CARB...
P.S.: I forgot to mention all the fuel vapor recovery hardware for both vehicles and stations. Currently gasoline pumps are supposed to only allow one drop of fuel to spill when pulling the nozzle from the vehicle and replacing it back onto the pump IIRC.
It would just be nice to have some purpose built CNG vehicles available for purchase. Only CNG on the market in the US that isn't a conversion to my knowledge is a car from Honda. Oh and a very large infrastructure of CNG filling stations would be nice as well. I have never seen a station with CNG in my necks of the woods.