6.4 a failure?
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
From: San Diego, CA
I think that the only 2007 and newer motor that can pass the new standards is the 6.7L Cummins. But someone will chime in if the D-Max has to be changed or not for 2010.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,513
Likes: 1
Its been pretty well documented that Ford has gone from the 7.3 to the 6.0 to the 6.4 due to emmissions compliance. But why havent GM and Dodge had to make compete changes to their engines? I dont recall hearing anything about the dirtymax or cummins being modified back in 2003. Was it? Other than a DPF system is the 08 dirtymax any different than the 07? I know the cummins went to a 6.7 but I think its essentially the same design as the 5.9????? Is this false perception? Is Ford the only one making drastic changes to their engine line up?
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,096
Likes: 0
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0 itxtvisited="1"><TBODY itxtvisited="1"><TR itxtvisited="1"><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset" itxtvisited="1">Originally Posted by Mwachel
The reason they got rid of the 6.0 was for the 2008 emissions standard. The reason they are getting rid of the 6.4 is for the 2010 emissions standard.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
"Yep, the 6.4 can't pass the new 2010 diesel emission requirements. This was a know stopgap motor when the '08's came out."
Not any truth in the above.
The 6.0 was capable of meeting the 2007 emission standards with more EGR and a DPF, if you doubt it, check out the MaxxForce 5/Powerstroke 4.5 engine, its 3/4 of a 6.0 with a DPF and it meets the 2007 standards. They didn't bother changing it because its going away in 2010.
The 6.4 liter V8 was designed for 2010 and beyond, and it will meet those standards with few changes.
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0 itxtvisited="1"><TBODY itxtvisited="1"><TR itxtvisited="1"><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset" itxtvisited="1">Originally Posted by Mwachel
The reason they got rid of the 6.0 was for the 2008 emissions standard. The reason they are getting rid of the 6.4 is for the 2010 emissions standard.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
"Yep, the 6.4 can't pass the new 2010 diesel emission requirements. This was a know stopgap motor when the '08's came out."
Not any truth in the above.
The 6.0 was capable of meeting the 2007 emission standards with more EGR and a DPF, if you doubt it, check out the MaxxForce 5/Powerstroke 4.5 engine, its 3/4 of a 6.0 with a DPF and it meets the 2007 standards. They didn't bother changing it because its going away in 2010.
The 6.4 liter V8 was designed for 2010 and beyond, and it will meet those standards with few changes.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 1
From: Snohomish, Washington
Thanks for the info. the 6.0 liter and the 6.4 had a commonization effort so they can't be all that different other than the obvious. As for Ford making their own diesel, that will be an interesting one to watch.
Elder User
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
Who cares if the 6.4 was designed to meed the 2007 or 2010 emissions standards. It's still one hellof a motor, at least when you get rid of the EPA B.S. Honestly unless the newer 2010 diesels get better HP AND mileage (which I highly doubt) this will probably be my first and only new diesel purchase. But I'm just shooting in the dark right now, who knows what the newer diesel will pull. But it will be much harder the get rid of the EPA B.S. again I would assume.
BTW I've had an 1985 F-350 ?.? diesel, a 2000 F-350 7.3 Diesel, and a 2005 F-250 6.0 Diesel as work trucks and the 6.4 knocks them all down with no sweat. Wouldn't trade it for anything out there. I think it's awesome when a 1 ton truck impresses Big Rig drivers going down the highway at 75 towing a 39' gooseneck loaded down with equipment. I love my CB, best cop finder around.
BTW I've had an 1985 F-350 ?.? diesel, a 2000 F-350 7.3 Diesel, and a 2005 F-250 6.0 Diesel as work trucks and the 6.4 knocks them all down with no sweat. Wouldn't trade it for anything out there. I think it's awesome when a 1 ton truck impresses Big Rig drivers going down the highway at 75 towing a 39' gooseneck loaded down with equipment. I love my CB, best cop finder around.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,096
Likes: 0
You are assuming that since the 6.7 Cummins can now pass the 2010 standards that its the only currently available engine that will be able to meet them in 2010.
The whole story is that Cummins is working the EPA rules to their advantage. By having an engine currently meeting the 2010 standards they are earning emission credits that allow some of their other non compliant engines to be sold. Word is that the 6.7 Cummins actually sold in 2010 may not even be using the same emission strategies as the current engines.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,096
Likes: 0
Its been pretty well documented that Ford has gone from the 7.3 to the 6.0 to the 6.4 due to emmissions compliance. But why havent GM and Dodge had to make compete changes to their engines? I dont recall hearing anything about the dirtymax or cummins being modified back in 2003. Was it? Other than a DPF system is the 08 dirtymax any different than the 07? I know the cummins went to a 6.7 but I think its essentially the same design as the 5.9????? Is this false perception? Is Ford the only one making drastic changes to their engine line up?
All of them had to add EGR and had 4 valve heads by the 2004 standards.
All of them went with more EGR, a DPF and high pressure common rail fuel systems by the 2007 emissions deadline.
In a "nutshell"; International/Ford chose not to adapt EGR to the 7.3 but went with a new engine platform capable of having a four valve per cylinder head to meet 04 and beyond. When the 6.0/VT365 proved to have some issues and developed a less than stellar reputation they corrected the issues with the new 6.4 designed for 2007 and beyond. Ford has now decided to go it alone with their own engine.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Right... And the lawsuits between Ford and Navistar has nothing to do with it.
I know a top Ford mechanic that stopped using Fords because of the 6.0. He's back to Ford with the 6.4. He says that the reliability should rival the 7.3.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 1
From: Snohomish, Washington
JT there is more to it than the lawsuits over the 6.0 liter. international had that motor in other applications with zero issues. Ford took the thing modified it to the edge and guess what, stuff started breaking. The 6.4 liter was internationals answer to ford and here again, it is said to rival the 7.3 but Ford wants more control over the entire diesel project.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
JT there is more to it than the lawsuits over the 6.0 liter. international had that motor in other applications with zero issues. Ford took the thing modified it to the edge and guess what, stuff started breaking. The 6.4 liter was internationals answer to ford and here again, it is said to rival the 7.3 but Ford wants more control over the entire diesel project.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,096
Likes: 0
International had many issues with the VT365/6.0, no where even close to "zero issues".
When we go to a meeting where International corporate service people are presant, they cover the DT engines, the chassis and the buses and then invite those with VT365s to stay and circle around for some one on one assistance and to hear about operating and maintenance tips and the latest "uptime" changes, its been this way since about 2005.
Also its been some time since International truck/bus sales personnal have had the confidence in the product to ask "why not try our V8?". The MaxxForce 7/ 6.4 engine has brought that confidence back.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,868
Likes: 9
From: Rhode Island
JT there is more to it than the lawsuits over the 6.0 liter. international had that motor in other applications with zero issues. Ford took the thing modified it to the edge and guess what, stuff started breaking. The 6.4 liter was internationals answer to ford and here again, it is said to rival the 7.3 but Ford wants more control over the entire diesel project.