Well just my 2cents. I bought the Diablo for my 08 F150 4.6L and like it. I just did the 87 octane tune. It seemed to wake up my tranny. No MPG increase though. My truck feels better. I don't know about doing my own tune so I bought something that had something better than factory. Just hook it up and let it do it's thing. I am happy with it.

 

About 2 years ago the Supreme Court updated a 100 year old decision which basically stated manufacturers could not dictate prices. Two cases, from Bose and Rolex, were the basis for the update.

Under the current ruling:

- Minimum Advertised Price: Basically, the retailer can sell at any price they want. This part has not changed. However, manufacturers do not have to support products which do not conform to MAP. They may even list companies which are known not to sell at MAP as "unauthorized" retailers without support. If you visit some of the radar detector manufacturer sites you'll find that some of the list dealers who are not authorized and have no warranty support.

- Manufacturers who are prevented from setting retail prices that signal their products' high quality will have less incentive to offer high-quality goods - and, hence, less incentive to compete on the basis of quality. The court ruled that using MAP to signal higher quality is pro-competitive. For instance, paying more for Craftsman tools verses cheap tools. This applies to tuners. As an example, Edge wants their product price point to refelt the additional features it has over its lower price competitors. Superchips wants their products to reflect the additional R&D they put into their tunes, for better overall driveability.

- The ruling basically means that manufacturers can use MAP to signal that higher quality has a price.

- Manufacturers can also dictate distribution channels. For instance, they may disallow sales through auction sites.

In other words... if you want cheap you buy a low end product. You want quality and support you'll pay for it. A couple of weeks ago I was looking at radar detectors on the web. I found several online retailers selling for about 30% less than MAP. These retailers were also listed on the radar manufacturer sites as unauthorized with no warranty support. The consumer is still free to make a choice: do I pay 30% less and hope nothing goes wrong, or do I pay MAP and get service and a warranty. I opted for service and warranty. There are three things that go with any sale: price, support, quality. You can only pick 2, not all 3, with a sale.

Buy something at Walmart. If the price is low its either going to have poor service or poor quality.

 

I was reading an article on Consumerist.com and eBay about that Rolex ruling...thought it was only 2 weeks old...I guess I didn't look a the year stamp well enough.

sorry, but I'm still bent around the axle about the $100 mark-up that you are saying is Edge's way of indicating a higher quality product with customer support. $100...seriously. For a little piece of paper that gives you the right to warranty support? Resellers were making enough profit at $320-350 a pop last year. And last I checked, it was the exact same product. Except now it will work on a 2008 model as well.

Now it's starting to sound like Edge operates like one of those warranties you can buy from Best Buy.I hope Edge and others in the industry follow threads like this. Paying for a service/product is one thing if the value is proportional. The very idea that they find this acceptable....it is just wrong

Paying for a service/product + a ridiculously high inflamatory "service charge" for the "right" to purchase that service/product stinks of corruption to me. Luckily the Supreme Court was severely (5/4 vote) divided on this decision. We; well I, can hope this horrendous decision is rescinded in the future.

sorry to everybody about me taking this thread ...I will now quietly bow out and let it go back to where it belongs

Which programmer is better?





anybody ever notice there isn't a "On Topic" Smiley?

 

Tylus if you were asking me I paid 380 shipped to my door with the 87 octane daily/ economy 91 tow and 91 performance. Its marked out at 390 but get a ten dollar discount for being part of this forum. I wanted to go with the edge cause I like the gauges. But then I found the gauges you put on the pilliar and relized the edge was somewhat over priced from what ppl tell me and said sct is alot better so thats what I went with. Now im going to save money for a dual pod kit. Would look pretty sweet I think

 

not bad Still Smokin'. you model has the 3 canned, and then 3 custom tunes right?

 

No just the 3 custom tunes. It only holds 3 so you have to pick between the two when you order it. If I would have bout the livewire which was like 550 it would hold both.

 

Okay, I'm going to jump in here in support of MAP pricing practices. First off a retail dealer who adheres to MAP pricing gets paid for what he does, namely STOCK the product, Participate in training which is usually at his expense and educates his customers on proper use of the product. Internet resellers very seldom provide any of those services. If you have a problem, it's like screaming down an empty tunnel. Most of them provide "catalog expertise" and NO real world assistance. Retailers install what they sell, none of the "Plug & Play" BS they advertise that in some cases leaves your vehicle dead in your driveway. They abuse factory techs with situations they usually create. Buy from an internet "bedroom retailer" no thanks I want to know my dealer!

 

I have used my Diablosport Predator with 3 different trucks, including a custom dyno tune with my 06, and I have been very impressed.

 

Tylus, my Edge Evolution was $374.19 delivered.

Also $25 mail in rebate. haven't done yet.

autoanything.com

May be worth a look.

 

so far i put my sct x3 on the 91 performance lowered the spark down to work with mid grade fuel and holy crap it moves like no other. It really woke up. Ya the edge maybe 379 plus a 25 rebate but thats all preprogramed tunes for 380 you can pick 3 tunes that you want. I love it so far. Just need to do some tuning with the options.

 

I've thought about the SCT Xcal2 and the Livewire...but in that case I want tunes done with a Dyno.

I know that guys have had great luck with Troyer tunes and the other tuners that take your info and send the tune via e-mail.

It's just one of those things I ain't comfortable with. I know the Edge is safe because it has to work with every single truck. And theoretically the custom tunes will be also, but without actually have the truck running with a wideband sensor, I'm dependant upon somebody across the world from me to provide safe A/F curves and other parameters that won't damage my $44,000 truck

 

Nothing like dyno numbers to confirm an increase in power. When I had the dyno tune done with my Diablosport Predator I was able to see an increase of 10 horsepower and 22 ft/lb of torque at the rear wheels, above and beyond what was achievable with the max pre-programmed tune. This was accomplished, according to the tech, by simply leaning the fuel mixture a bit and bumping the timing up a bit, all under the watchful eye of the wideband sensors. And of course the leaned mixture did give me better fuel economy on the rare occasions where I managed to keep my foot out of the injectors.

By the way, the other thing that he did was eliminate the "traction delay" which is the built in throttle lag that Ford sees fit to provide.

I am currently running my 04 HD on the 87 octane tune, being unwilling to pay the price for premiun fuel. Certainly seems to give me a torquier engine.
Of course, the 4.10 gears help in that department as well without too much loss of fuel economy.

 

You're right -- Edge doesn't SELL a programmable unit. Power Hungry Performance (Bill Cohron) is the only company who can reprogram the Evolution II. For over a year, we've used Edge's hardware platform (we call it the Gryphon). We have our own firmware with additional features like metrics and datalogging, and we also provide custom tuning, which Edge can't due to their CARB certification.

We offer an upgrade for customers who own the Edge Evolution II and would like custom tunes for various reasons.

(And we warranty the hardware through Edge.)

Who is Power Hungry Performance?

 

go with diablo predator. they work the best for any mods done or just stock. it increases a lot of power and it is very notaciable the second you put it in. you can make and download custom tunes with it too

 

Good to see someone is still singing the praises of the Predator. They surely seemed to fall out of favor on here for a time.

Haven't checked prices for a while, but I am guessing they are a bit less than the 550 CAD I had to pay for mine.