running rough with black smoke???
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Elder User
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Central Coast CA
running rough with black smoke???
ok, i have a new air filter, fuel filter, oil and oil filter, new injectors, and new o rings with return lines. and it runs like its missing when idling but it isn't consistent, it will also rev up under normal acceleration or on cruise control, i have read the other post in which other people talk of similar problems and tried some things,
i did try turning to the on position(where the wait to start light comes on) and i took the two wires off of the top of the i.p. and put them back on, and it did click. soo... im not shure what that means but i do know its normal?
basically im trying to pin it down to air intrusion, bad i.p. or bad i.p. gov.
or could it be a bad fuel pump?
im stumped. lol
i did try turning to the on position(where the wait to start light comes on) and i took the two wires off of the top of the i.p. and put them back on, and it did click. soo... im not shure what that means but i do know its normal?
basically im trying to pin it down to air intrusion, bad i.p. or bad i.p. gov.
or could it be a bad fuel pump?
im stumped. lol
Elder User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 790
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From: Danville, Pa
Is it only at idle? Does it do it on light throttle? Heavy accel?
The gov isn't it. That only keeps the throttle at a specific rpm(+/- 5%) based on your foot/throttle position. Just like a garden tractor and such. If the gov didn't work, it would go into a runaway situation. Basically the engine goes to max mechanical rpm limit. and unless you block it's airflow, it'll gernade.
It could be air, bad injectors, or IP. It also could be headgasket, cavitation, valves, etc. Do a compression test on it. See if theres a low cyl. Cheaper than an IP.
Does it smoke at all when idling?
is there a puff out the tailpipe coresponding to the miss?
The gov isn't it. That only keeps the throttle at a specific rpm(+/- 5%) based on your foot/throttle position. Just like a garden tractor and such. If the gov didn't work, it would go into a runaway situation. Basically the engine goes to max mechanical rpm limit. and unless you block it's airflow, it'll gernade.
It could be air, bad injectors, or IP. It also could be headgasket, cavitation, valves, etc. Do a compression test on it. See if theres a low cyl. Cheaper than an IP.
Does it smoke at all when idling?
is there a puff out the tailpipe coresponding to the miss?
Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Central Coast CA
yes!
i was thinking... is it possible that something might be wrong with my fuel pump and it is letting fuel leak back into the tank while it is off? and it could be letting air in if it lets fuel out. i see no visible leakage from it. i dont even see any visible leakage anywhere under the hood.
The injectors are new, brand spankn new, so are the o rings and the return lines, not even 250 miles on them!
the black smoke is coresponding to the miss, and it only puffs little bits of black smoke while idling, so its not alot, and the smoke from heavy acceleration is normal.
i just want to clarify that it is not white smoke, so i dont think its cavitation.
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Guymon
Ya, when mine gets air in the system it does the same thing, smokes black alot and will stall if you don't keep the rpms up. I think your already on the right path with the fuel going back down into the tank. I believe that the lift pump on the side of the engine has a one way valve in it and should help prevent this. The diaphram could also have a small pin hole in it. Since its not too hard and expensive, that pump would be one of the first things I would change. I changed mine in o-rilies parking lot in like 15 minutes while it was hot. I wouldn't suggest getting the cheapest brand of pump either. The one I bought was $45 which was $20 more than another parts store. Looked like a better pump as well. Also, can you put a clear line inplace of the pressure line to the injection pump. The you can see if you have air intrusion. Also, the clicking you described is normal. That is the fuel shut off solonoid working, which is a good thing. Good luck
Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Central Coast CA
hey thanks
Ya, when mine gets air in the system it does the same thing, smokes black alot and will stall if you don't keep the rpms up. I think your already on the right path with the fuel going back down into the tank. I believe that the lift pump on the side of the engine has a one way valve in it and should help prevent this. The diaphram could also have a small pin hole in it. Since its not too hard and expensive, that pump would be one of the first things I would change. I changed mine in o-rilies parking lot in like 15 minutes while it was hot. I wouldn't suggest getting the cheapest brand of pump either. The one I bought was $45 which was $20 more than another parts store. Looked like a better pump as well. Also, can you put a clear line inplace of the pressure line to the injection pump. The you can see if you have air intrusion. Also, the clicking you described is normal. That is the fuel shut off solonoid working, which is a good thing. Good luck
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Powell River B.C.
Have you checked the timing? new injectors with good pop off pressure will fire later than the old ones did. If you didn't check the timing when you put in the new injectors, your IP could be too far advanced. Also makes for harder starting and black smoke?!!
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Elder User
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 549
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From: Mississippi
is your fuel filter one that has the built in water separator or is it like the one in mine that's in a housing with a cup under the bottom of the filter with a water separator fitting on it? if it's the latter, it may be that the drain isn't shutting off completely and is letting air in the system that way. been there done that, have a patch of dead grass in the yard as a result. had to rebuild the cutoff assembly inside to make it stop. mine did the same thing on start up and was making me crazy----well, crazier. maybe this will give you a different direction to look if the other things don't correct it.
speedrdr
speedrdr
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Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Sweet Home, OR
I'm voting for air in the fuel "feed" line/system especially since you talk about it "increasing rpm" under acceleration or on cruise control.
BTW when I first got on this site I thought the "two flats" in you signature was refering to your tires. LOL
BTW when I first got on this site I thought the "two flats" in you signature was refering to your tires. LOL
Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Central Coast CA
lol! well believe it or not, i actualy got two flats after i bought it, but the " two flats" in my signature is refering to the i.p. hell when i first got on here i didnt even know if my was a p.s. or and idi! lol but i guess everyone has to start somewhere.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,168
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check the short hose from the fuel lift pump to the fuel line on the frame rail. just replace it. its cheap and easy and they leak all the time. make it long enough to loop it without kinking it. but make sure it is not rubbing on the framerail or fuel pump or anything else under there. hope this helps
Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Central Coast CA
well it was the lift pump that was the source of all my problems, and it took a while for me to replace it myself because, as the warning that came with the carter pump states "if the pump is installed at any other position that low cam, the pump will be ruined, the engine will stall and damage may result"... now two thoughts came to my head after reading this, first what the hell is low cam, second why the hell did they make it so vague??? lol but eventually i figured it out on my own. i didnt have time to get on here and ask you guys the first question but everything worked out.
it idles so incredibly smooth it makes me wonder if something is broken! lol i guess thats just the new fuel pump complementing my new injectors!
it idles so incredibly smooth it makes me wonder if something is broken! lol i guess thats just the new fuel pump complementing my new injectors!