HP difference, MAF and SD
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Elder User
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: northeast, KY
HP difference, MAF and SD
Hey guys...Quick question.
I was wondering if there's any big difference between a SD 351 and a MAF 351. I've had both, and it seems like the newer one I have (MAF) would beat the pants off my old bronco.
Both have pretty much the same stuff, 4wd, auto trannies (one's a C6 and others an E40D) and 351's...but the one in the bronco seems like a VW Rabbit motor or something, lol.
Can anyone give me the difference in the horsepowers on these two engines? Any info or advice is appreciated.
I was wondering if there's any big difference between a SD 351 and a MAF 351. I've had both, and it seems like the newer one I have (MAF) would beat the pants off my old bronco.
Both have pretty much the same stuff, 4wd, auto trannies (one's a C6 and others an E40D) and 351's...but the one in the bronco seems like a VW Rabbit motor or something, lol.
Can anyone give me the difference in the horsepowers on these two engines? Any info or advice is appreciated.
Freshman User
Joined: Jun 2008
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I have pamphlets from '96 and '97. They state that the 5.8 for California is 205 hp @ 3600 rpm, 330 lbs-ft @ 2600 rpm. The 5.8 for the other 49 states is 210 hp @ 3600, 325 lbs-ft @ 2800.
The 7.5 is 245 hp @ 4000, 400 lbs-ft @ 2400 for 49. It is 242 hp @ 4000, and 394 lbs-ft @ 2200 rpm for California.
Yet I've heard that the MAF trucks are stronger and more fuel efficient than the SD trucks. I am trying to find out more about this as well for a 460 project of mine.
The 7.5 is 245 hp @ 4000, 400 lbs-ft @ 2400 for 49. It is 242 hp @ 4000, and 394 lbs-ft @ 2200 rpm for California.
Yet I've heard that the MAF trucks are stronger and more fuel efficient than the SD trucks. I am trying to find out more about this as well for a 460 project of mine.
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Elder User
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: northeast, KY
Well, I don't think mine's a California truck, I live in Kenucky...but it is MAF. I dont know if it's true or not, but I've heard a couple people say that the MAF'd 351's were pretty rare to see outside of California. This is the only one I've seen around my area.
Wonder why the 351's peak horsepower is in a lower RPM than the 460? I always thought of the 460 to be a big lugging motor that made the power down low.
Also...why would the smogged out california truck make more torque AND in lower RPM's than the trucks in the other 49 states? That doesn't make sense to me.
Mine doesn't get too good of gas mileage...around 14 on the highway with a light load, I haven't really got to try it out empty yet...but I'd trade power for economy in a truck anyday.
Thanks for the reply
The 351 in my 96 makes the truck feel quick and light. It doesn't take any throttle to get it going, and it will really scream when you mash the throttle. It's like a completly different animal compared to my SD Bronco.
Wonder why the 351's peak horsepower is in a lower RPM than the 460? I always thought of the 460 to be a big lugging motor that made the power down low.
Also...why would the smogged out california truck make more torque AND in lower RPM's than the trucks in the other 49 states? That doesn't make sense to me.
Mine doesn't get too good of gas mileage...around 14 on the highway with a light load, I haven't really got to try it out empty yet...but I'd trade power for economy in a truck anyday.
Thanks for the reply
The 351 in my 96 makes the truck feel quick and light. It doesn't take any throttle to get it going, and it will really scream when you mash the throttle. It's like a completly different animal compared to my SD Bronco.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 31,930
Likes: 1,499
From: Ottawa, Ontario
What year is was the older truck? The motor got upgraded to a roller cam in '94, and the F4TE cam has more lift than the old flat tappet, so the newer motors will make more power. The old 80's 351HO had a bigger cam than the roller motor and it would spank the newer motor. So to answer your question the induction system does not determine how much power the motor makes, it simply comes down to how well it breathes.
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Elder User
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From: northeast, KY
Thanks for the explanation Conanski.
My bronco was an 88, and the F150 I have now is a 96. So did alot of the 96 trucks come with MAF, or am I right about this being rare? I know that the factory horsepowers don't mean alot when you are building a motor, but I would like to know what the base is on it right now. Are those numbers right that littlejohniii posted?
I have alot of old magazines, and I think in 84 the 351HO put out like 250 horsepower, I was thinking this motor SHOULD at least be around that, right?
Matt
My bronco was an 88, and the F150 I have now is a 96. So did alot of the 96 trucks come with MAF, or am I right about this being rare? I know that the factory horsepowers don't mean alot when you are building a motor, but I would like to know what the base is on it right now. Are those numbers right that littlejohniii posted?
I have alot of old magazines, and I think in 84 the 351HO put out like 250 horsepower, I was thinking this motor SHOULD at least be around that, right?
Matt
FTE Legend
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 31,930
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From: Ottawa, Ontario
I think most of the '96 trucks were MAF, everythig under 8500lbs GVWR should be OBD2 and that system only comes as mass air.
If either vehicle has anything but the stock exhaust then the factory ratings are nowhere close. The california trucks may have had additional cats to further reduce emissions, that may account for the slightly lower power rating.
The heads and EFI intake are restrictive on a 5.8, but it will still produce about 250HP with an exhaust system, up to about 275hp or so with a cam upgrade. 350-400+hp is achievable with the right HCI combo and supporting parts.
If either vehicle has anything but the stock exhaust then the factory ratings are nowhere close. The california trucks may have had additional cats to further reduce emissions, that may account for the slightly lower power rating.
The heads and EFI intake are restrictive on a 5.8, but it will still produce about 250HP with an exhaust system, up to about 275hp or so with a cam upgrade. 350-400+hp is achievable with the right HCI combo and supporting parts.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,512
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From: Cook Forest and Irwin PA
IIRC all incarnations of the 5.8 were rated around 210hp with EFI - SD or MA. (not to be pedantic but MAF is a sensor, MA (mass air) is shorthand for the strategy)
another level of tier2? emissions took effect in 92 which negated SD as its cold and idle characteristecs were not favorable.
another level of tier2? emissions took effect in 92 which negated SD as its cold and idle characteristecs were not favorable.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2003
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Thanks for the explanation Conanski.
My bronco was an 88, and the F150 I have now is a 96. So did alot of the 96 trucks come with MAF, or am I right about this being rare? I know that the factory horsepowers don't mean alot when you are building a motor, but I would like to know what the base is on it right now. Are those numbers right that littlejohniii posted?
I have alot of old magazines, and I think in 84 the 351HO put out like 250 horsepower, I was thinking this motor SHOULD at least be around that, right?
Matt
My bronco was an 88, and the F150 I have now is a 96. So did alot of the 96 trucks come with MAF, or am I right about this being rare? I know that the factory horsepowers don't mean alot when you are building a motor, but I would like to know what the base is on it right now. Are those numbers right that littlejohniii posted?
I have alot of old magazines, and I think in 84 the 351HO put out like 250 horsepower, I was thinking this motor SHOULD at least be around that, right?
Matt
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Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: northeast, KY
I don't know if there would be that big of a difference or not...The Bronco is shorter, plus I hardly ever ran around with the top on (only in winter).
The bronco does have another seat which would add some weight, and full carpeting, but I don't it would make up for this big of a lack of power....Maybe the trannies were the issue...One is a C6 and the other's an E40D. What do you guys think?
Thanks for the replies so far guys.
The bronco does have another seat which would add some weight, and full carpeting, but I don't it would make up for this big of a lack of power....Maybe the trannies were the issue...One is a C6 and the other's an E40D. What do you guys think?
Thanks for the replies so far guys.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 31,930
Likes: 1,499
From: Ottawa, Ontario
No.. the older motors were a lot weaker, I have personally driven quite a few of the early trucks with both the 5.0 and 5.8 and they are gutless wonders compared to trucks with the roller motors. Most of these had 3.55 rear ends too so the comparison is valid.
Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,285
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From: Bend,OR
the C6 is a huge power hog compared to the e4od.
also the bronco is very heavy, now mine might not be the best example but with 3 people a dog and half tank of gas the bronco came in at 6550. of cours i have 35's and sliders that probably add about 150lbs that total.
also the bronco is very heavy, now mine might not be the best example but with 3 people a dog and half tank of gas the bronco came in at 6550. of cours i have 35's and sliders that probably add about 150lbs that total.
New User
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6
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From: Shawnee, Kansas
MAF or SD?
HUH, ok so heres a rookie question. What is MAF and SD, how do they affect my engine? And how do I know which one I have? Also how do they relate to performance mods? OK so that was more that one question.
I know that MAF means mass air flow sensor but thats about where my knowledge of them begins. I remember something about cleaning a MAF on my Thunderbird.
I know that MAF means mass air flow sensor but thats about where my knowledge of them begins. I remember something about cleaning a MAF on my Thunderbird.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,512
Likes: 8
From: Cook Forest and Irwin PA
MA is mass air, SD is speed/density
MA uses a MAF to directly measure how much air is sucked into the engine, and based on the temp, can directly calculate how dense it was and therefore inject the proper amount of fuel based on demand (throttle position)
If you improve the breathing of the motor via some hardware change - it sees this as more air flows, it matches with fuel.
SD uses a manifold sensor, air temp, a barometric sensor, rpm and throttle to 'guess' how much air was injected based on a set of fixed tables programmed in at the factory. If you change some hardware, the guess is no longer as good and in some cases severe engine damage may result.
How do you know which one you have? a SD truck has an airbox lid with huge giant 'radiator' hoses running from it to the throttle body. a MA system has the MAF somewhere in this path - either in the airbox lid on the end, in the path of the hoses, or just before, semi-connected to the throttle body.
MA uses a MAF to directly measure how much air is sucked into the engine, and based on the temp, can directly calculate how dense it was and therefore inject the proper amount of fuel based on demand (throttle position)
If you improve the breathing of the motor via some hardware change - it sees this as more air flows, it matches with fuel.
SD uses a manifold sensor, air temp, a barometric sensor, rpm and throttle to 'guess' how much air was injected based on a set of fixed tables programmed in at the factory. If you change some hardware, the guess is no longer as good and in some cases severe engine damage may result.
How do you know which one you have? a SD truck has an airbox lid with huge giant 'radiator' hoses running from it to the throttle body. a MA system has the MAF somewhere in this path - either in the airbox lid on the end, in the path of the hoses, or just before, semi-connected to the throttle body.
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Elder User
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: northeast, KY
I don't know if this is with all of the MA trucks, but mine has a little sensor on the side of the air filter box. I know the MAF meter is right before the air filter, but this is something a little different...maybe a sensor to measure temp?
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,603
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From: St Louis
There is also a gearing difference in the first and second gear of the C-6 compared to the E4OD. A mod that is done with the C-6 is to replace the planetary gear set with the E4OD to acheive a little lower gear ratio, which usually gives a better grunt at that point. I have no idea on the newer engine compared to the older engine. If it has a manual though, that tends to be better in my opinion than any auto.