No start on warm engine?
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 39
A scan tool will give you the overall picture ,, Isolating the heads will tell you which side of the motor to deal with
It could be a poppet issue also ,,,do the pressure test first.
Poppets can be verified with a feeler guage with the covers off ...
Info on that ...
The poppet valve is the one single area of a PSD injector that just flat out wears. It's similar to a valve in a cylinder head that beats itself into it's valveseat.
As the poppet valve opens and closes (with each injection), it meters the high pressure oil flow in/out of the inj.
With each opening and closing, the seat is being hammered by the valve...causing it (over millions of cycles) to seat lower and lower into the injector...until clearance under the armature is lost.
Once the armature bottoms out on the inj body, the valve cannot "reach" the seat to seal high pressure oil from leaking out of the injector.
The reason that the truck runs when cold, and dies (and won't restart until it has cooled significantly) is that cold oil is thick...and can bridge the gap created by a poor valve & seat seal.
once the oil is warm, it thins out, and can now leak around that valve creating a tremendous amount of "spillage" that the oil pump can not now keep up with...once the amount of the leak exceeds the capacity of the pump...pressure falls, and the injectors simply cannot fire without (approx) 450psi of high pressure oil...so the truck dies.
you can physically measure this yourself.
Pull both valvecovers, and start the truck...it won't be horribly messy, just a little oil splash around the valvetrain.
As the truck (oil) heats up and dies, have someone crank on the starter attempting to restart the truck.
You should be able to look at each injector, and find one that it puking oil out from around the (just above) the hold down clamp.
You may need to mop up any oil that settles down in the low spot of the head to help you see which injector is actually puking...
once you've isolated which inj(s) are puking, pull the solenoid (4 # torx 15 screws), remove the harness to that inj, remove the little aluminum spacer plate...
what you are now looking at is the armature plate...the little ~1"x1" square plate, with the goofy screw (poppet screw) going through it's center.
On a brand new injector, there should typically be .003"-.004" (three to four thousanths of an inch) gap under that armature (measured with a feeler gauge)...
My bet is that your injectors have enough poppet seat wear that they have less than .0015 (less than one and one half thou of an inch) gap...practically zero.
if you can't get a .0015" feeler under the armature plate, then that injector is a problem, and it is a good indication that the others within that set need some machining to bring them back into spec. so that they will operate correctly.
It could be a poppet issue also ,,,do the pressure test first.
Poppets can be verified with a feeler guage with the covers off ...
Info on that ...
The poppet valve is the one single area of a PSD injector that just flat out wears. It's similar to a valve in a cylinder head that beats itself into it's valveseat.
As the poppet valve opens and closes (with each injection), it meters the high pressure oil flow in/out of the inj.
With each opening and closing, the seat is being hammered by the valve...causing it (over millions of cycles) to seat lower and lower into the injector...until clearance under the armature is lost.
Once the armature bottoms out on the inj body, the valve cannot "reach" the seat to seal high pressure oil from leaking out of the injector.
The reason that the truck runs when cold, and dies (and won't restart until it has cooled significantly) is that cold oil is thick...and can bridge the gap created by a poor valve & seat seal.
once the oil is warm, it thins out, and can now leak around that valve creating a tremendous amount of "spillage" that the oil pump can not now keep up with...once the amount of the leak exceeds the capacity of the pump...pressure falls, and the injectors simply cannot fire without (approx) 450psi of high pressure oil...so the truck dies.
you can physically measure this yourself.
Pull both valvecovers, and start the truck...it won't be horribly messy, just a little oil splash around the valvetrain.
As the truck (oil) heats up and dies, have someone crank on the starter attempting to restart the truck.
You should be able to look at each injector, and find one that it puking oil out from around the (just above) the hold down clamp.
You may need to mop up any oil that settles down in the low spot of the head to help you see which injector is actually puking...
once you've isolated which inj(s) are puking, pull the solenoid (4 # torx 15 screws), remove the harness to that inj, remove the little aluminum spacer plate...
what you are now looking at is the armature plate...the little ~1"x1" square plate, with the goofy screw (poppet screw) going through it's center.
On a brand new injector, there should typically be .003"-.004" (three to four thousanths of an inch) gap under that armature (measured with a feeler gauge)...
My bet is that your injectors have enough poppet seat wear that they have less than .0015 (less than one and one half thou of an inch) gap...practically zero.
if you can't get a .0015" feeler under the armature plate, then that injector is a problem, and it is a good indication that the others within that set need some machining to bring them back into spec. so that they will operate correctly.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: KS
Thanks for the help. All of the injectors have only 400-500 miles on them. The only thing that could have hurt them is turning engine over before oil and fuel rails were completely refilled.
Does it matter what stroke the piston or injector is in when you check the clearance? What do you file down or will that be clear once I get that far?
Thanks
Kelly
Does it matter what stroke the piston or injector is in when you check the clearance? What do you file down or will that be clear once I get that far?
Thanks
Kelly
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: KS
I thought I had better clarify one more item. It will never die on me. as long as its running it will keep going. If I shut the engine off, it won't restart until it the engine gets cooled out a little. What is the pressure when running with pedal on the floor? Mine was running around 2600 the other day. I am thinking that if that is close to maximum pressure, then I can rule out my high pressure oil pump. This is a stock engine, no mods at all.
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 9,236
Likes: 12
From: Senoia, GA
A scan tool will give you the overall picture ,, Isolating the heads will tell you which side of the motor to deal with
It could be a poppet issue also ,,,do the pressure test first.
Poppets can be verified with a feeler guage with the covers off ...
Info on that ...
The poppet valve is the one single area of a PSD injector that just flat out wears. It's similar to a valve in a cylinder head that beats itself into it's valveseat.
As the poppet valve opens and closes (with each injection), it meters the high pressure oil flow in/out of the inj.
With each opening and closing, the seat is being hammered by the valve...causing it (over millions of cycles) to seat lower and lower into the injector...until clearance under the armature is lost.
Once the armature bottoms out on the inj body, the valve cannot "reach" the seat to seal high pressure oil from leaking out of the injector.
The reason that the truck runs when cold, and dies (and won't restart until it has cooled significantly) is that cold oil is thick...and can bridge the gap created by a poor valve & seat seal.
once the oil is warm, it thins out, and can now leak around that valve creating a tremendous amount of "spillage" that the oil pump can not now keep up with...once the amount of the leak exceeds the capacity of the pump...pressure falls, and the injectors simply cannot fire without (approx) 450psi of high pressure oil...so the truck dies.
you can physically measure this yourself.
Pull both valvecovers, and start the truck...it won't be horribly messy, just a little oil splash around the valvetrain.
As the truck (oil) heats up and dies, have someone crank on the starter attempting to restart the truck.
You should be able to look at each injector, and find one that it puking oil out from around the (just above) the hold down clamp.
You may need to mop up any oil that settles down in the low spot of the head to help you see which injector is actually puking...
once you've isolated which inj(s) are puking, pull the solenoid (4 # torx 15 screws), remove the harness to that inj, remove the little aluminum spacer plate...
what you are now looking at is the armature plate...the little ~1"x1" square plate, with the goofy screw (poppet screw) going through it's center.
On a brand new injector, there should typically be .003"-.004" (three to four thousanths of an inch) gap under that armature (measured with a feeler gauge)...
My bet is that your injectors have enough poppet seat wear that they have less than .0015 (less than one and one half thou of an inch) gap...practically zero.
if you can't get a .0015" feeler under the armature plate, then that injector is a problem, and it is a good indication that the others within that set need some machining to bring them back into spec. so that they will operate correctly.
It could be a poppet issue also ,,,do the pressure test first.
Poppets can be verified with a feeler guage with the covers off ...
Info on that ...
The poppet valve is the one single area of a PSD injector that just flat out wears. It's similar to a valve in a cylinder head that beats itself into it's valveseat.
As the poppet valve opens and closes (with each injection), it meters the high pressure oil flow in/out of the inj.
With each opening and closing, the seat is being hammered by the valve...causing it (over millions of cycles) to seat lower and lower into the injector...until clearance under the armature is lost.
Once the armature bottoms out on the inj body, the valve cannot "reach" the seat to seal high pressure oil from leaking out of the injector.
The reason that the truck runs when cold, and dies (and won't restart until it has cooled significantly) is that cold oil is thick...and can bridge the gap created by a poor valve & seat seal.
once the oil is warm, it thins out, and can now leak around that valve creating a tremendous amount of "spillage" that the oil pump can not now keep up with...once the amount of the leak exceeds the capacity of the pump...pressure falls, and the injectors simply cannot fire without (approx) 450psi of high pressure oil...so the truck dies.
you can physically measure this yourself.
Pull both valvecovers, and start the truck...it won't be horribly messy, just a little oil splash around the valvetrain.
As the truck (oil) heats up and dies, have someone crank on the starter attempting to restart the truck.
You should be able to look at each injector, and find one that it puking oil out from around the (just above) the hold down clamp.
You may need to mop up any oil that settles down in the low spot of the head to help you see which injector is actually puking...
once you've isolated which inj(s) are puking, pull the solenoid (4 # torx 15 screws), remove the harness to that inj, remove the little aluminum spacer plate...
what you are now looking at is the armature plate...the little ~1"x1" square plate, with the goofy screw (poppet screw) going through it's center.
On a brand new injector, there should typically be .003"-.004" (three to four thousanths of an inch) gap under that armature (measured with a feeler gauge)...
My bet is that your injectors have enough poppet seat wear that they have less than .0015 (less than one and one half thou of an inch) gap...practically zero.
if you can't get a .0015" feeler under the armature plate, then that injector is a problem, and it is a good indication that the others within that set need some machining to bring them back into spec. so that they will operate correctly.
-cutts-
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 39
When Uppers aren't real bad ,,I would guess there are different degrees of bad ...
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Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 39
Thanks for the compliment ,,but I saved it from Dave @ Swamps ....
Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 10,008
Likes: 7
From: Austin, TX
A scan tool will give you the overall picture ,, Isolating the heads will tell you which side of the motor to deal with
It could be a poppet issue also ,,,do the pressure test first.
Poppets can be verified with a feeler guage with the covers off ...
Info on that ...
The poppet valve is the one single area of a PSD injector that just flat out wears. It's similar to a valve in a cylinder head that beats itself into it's valveseat.
As the poppet valve opens and closes (with each injection), it meters the high pressure oil flow in/out of the inj.
With each opening and closing, the seat is being hammered by the valve...causing it (over millions of cycles) to seat lower and lower into the injector...until clearance under the armature is lost.
Once the armature bottoms out on the inj body, the valve cannot "reach" the seat to seal high pressure oil from leaking out of the injector.
The reason that the truck runs when cold, and dies (and won't restart until it has cooled significantly) is that cold oil is thick...and can bridge the gap created by a poor valve & seat seal.
once the oil is warm, it thins out, and can now leak around that valve creating a tremendous amount of "spillage" that the oil pump can not now keep up with...once the amount of the leak exceeds the capacity of the pump...pressure falls, and the injectors simply cannot fire without (approx) 450psi of high pressure oil...so the truck dies.
you can physically measure this yourself.
Pull both valvecovers, and start the truck...it won't be horribly messy, just a little oil splash around the valvetrain.
As the truck (oil) heats up and dies, have someone crank on the starter attempting to restart the truck.
You should be able to look at each injector, and find one that it puking oil out from around the (just above) the hold down clamp.
You may need to mop up any oil that settles down in the low spot of the head to help you see which injector is actually puking...
once you've isolated which inj(s) are puking, pull the solenoid (4 # torx 15 screws), remove the harness to that inj, remove the little aluminum spacer plate...
what you are now looking at is the armature plate...the little ~1"x1" square plate, with the goofy screw (poppet screw) going through it's center.
On a brand new injector, there should typically be .003"-.004" (three to four thousanths of an inch) gap under that armature (measured with a feeler gauge)...
My bet is that your injectors have enough poppet seat wear that they have less than .0015 (less than one and one half thou of an inch) gap...practically zero.
if you can't get a .0015" feeler under the armature plate, then that injector is a problem, and it is a good indication that the others within that set need some machining to bring them back into spec. so that they will operate correctly.
It could be a poppet issue also ,,,do the pressure test first.
Poppets can be verified with a feeler guage with the covers off ...
Info on that ...
The poppet valve is the one single area of a PSD injector that just flat out wears. It's similar to a valve in a cylinder head that beats itself into it's valveseat.
As the poppet valve opens and closes (with each injection), it meters the high pressure oil flow in/out of the inj.
With each opening and closing, the seat is being hammered by the valve...causing it (over millions of cycles) to seat lower and lower into the injector...until clearance under the armature is lost.
Once the armature bottoms out on the inj body, the valve cannot "reach" the seat to seal high pressure oil from leaking out of the injector.
The reason that the truck runs when cold, and dies (and won't restart until it has cooled significantly) is that cold oil is thick...and can bridge the gap created by a poor valve & seat seal.
once the oil is warm, it thins out, and can now leak around that valve creating a tremendous amount of "spillage" that the oil pump can not now keep up with...once the amount of the leak exceeds the capacity of the pump...pressure falls, and the injectors simply cannot fire without (approx) 450psi of high pressure oil...so the truck dies.
you can physically measure this yourself.
Pull both valvecovers, and start the truck...it won't be horribly messy, just a little oil splash around the valvetrain.
As the truck (oil) heats up and dies, have someone crank on the starter attempting to restart the truck.
You should be able to look at each injector, and find one that it puking oil out from around the (just above) the hold down clamp.
You may need to mop up any oil that settles down in the low spot of the head to help you see which injector is actually puking...
once you've isolated which inj(s) are puking, pull the solenoid (4 # torx 15 screws), remove the harness to that inj, remove the little aluminum spacer plate...
what you are now looking at is the armature plate...the little ~1"x1" square plate, with the goofy screw (poppet screw) going through it's center.
On a brand new injector, there should typically be .003"-.004" (three to four thousanths of an inch) gap under that armature (measured with a feeler gauge)...
My bet is that your injectors have enough poppet seat wear that they have less than .0015 (less than one and one half thou of an inch) gap...practically zero.
if you can't get a .0015" feeler under the armature plate, then that injector is a problem, and it is a good indication that the others within that set need some machining to bring them back into spec. so that they will operate correctly.
i would check/replace all of your injector o-rings and isolate the heads as action said if all the injector o-rings check out.
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 39
By blocking one head at a time ,,the scanner should be able to see a lack of ICP ,,may be worth a try....
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: KS
Thanks
Kelly
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 39
After thinking about some more (I hope I don't hurt myself)
It can only read ICP from one of the two heads ,,so it will only work on the left ....
Sorry ...Thinking in between coats of paint ...stupid job getting in the way ...
It can only read ICP from one of the two heads ,,so it will only work on the left ....
Sorry ...Thinking in between coats of paint ...stupid job getting in the way ...
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,266
Likes: 0
From: Levittown
You can plug the feed to the pass side head and still read the ICP.
Bill