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1994.5 - 1997 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel  

CEL still on - help

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Old Jul 14, 2008 | 12:00 PM
  #1  
stroker393's Avatar
stroker393
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From: Butner,NC
CEL still on - help

I have researched this to death and don't now which way to go so I'll update my problem with a new thread.

95 F250 7.3L 226,000 miles / auto /no mods

When cold fires right up and idles perfect with no CEL on. Can drive it for 10 minutes at highway speeds and runs perfectly, park in yard and idles fine then 3 minutes in truck stalls and dies. Can crank it right back up but CEL is on and when volt delay ends runs like s--t ( have to throttle her to keep running) then CEL goes out and idles fine for 3 minutes and engine dies. I can repeat over and over.

Code pulled is P0341 - CMP performance fault / CMP camshaft pos sensor chk performance, electric noise detected harness routing,charging chk,sensor

Parts replaced so far with this problem are:
CMP sensor
rt v/c gskt
2 UVCH harnesses (pin1 was burnt)
4 glow plugs (cyl 3 ohmed OL; all others tested OK)
postive battery cable unit
alternator
GPR
batteries / Interstate-3 months old

I have pulled fuel filter and cleaned FPR screen; it was some what dirty but not clogged. When I reinstalled filter engine ran terrible and idle was up and down. I went to drain bowl and no fuel discharged; it only drained after removing filter (that has never happen before). Reinstalled and idle was back to normal but still with CEL problem. Oil level is fine and has been changed 1000 miles ago.
I have read every thread relating to stalls,fuel delivery,CEL on,etc and have many areas to check but hate to keep on buying parts in hopes of a fix.

HELP
 
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Old Jul 14, 2008 | 12:09 PM
  #2  
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Cuda_jim
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From: MICHIGAN
P0341 - electric noise detected harness. This can be noise from the alternator or many other electrical items leaking into the CPS wiring. Check the CPS wiring/connector for damage. You may need to peel back the wire insulation.

Replace the sensor again. They can fail right out of the box. At least it's cheap to do now, about $15.

Possibly IPR o rings need to be replaced.
 
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Old Jul 14, 2008 | 12:42 PM
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stroker393
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From: Butner,NC
I replaced IPR orings last year due to a warm/no start problem; cured that issue. Will check CPS wiring and fuel pressure tonight and maybe pull IPS sensor plug to see if problem goes away. I've always been able to correct any problem with this truck on the first try but this one has got me puzzled.
 
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Old Jul 14, 2008 | 07:44 PM
  #4  
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stroker393
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From: Butner,NC
Checked harness from CMP up to crossover to main circuit and everything looked good, rewrapped and reconnected all plugs. I pulled my CMP that I just installed from Ford ( # F4TZ12K073C which replaced F6TZ12K073A silver mount brkt) and it is shorter than the original one that I pulled ( stamped OC97 gold mount brkt). Could this be my problem? I understand camshaft end play and air gap and this bulletin that I found explains some of it:

No start at times; Intermittent stalling while driving during warm-up or when hot, usually restarts; Power "hitch" at cruise or under load; Possible DTC#'s P0340, P0341, P0344:
Cam Position (CMP) sensor.
The CMP sensor provides the PCM with cylinder ID and engine RPM. Sometimes hard to detect, even with a scan tool while monitoring the RPM signal. If the PCM does not receive a clear CMP signal, it won't signal the Injector Driver Module (IDM) to energize the injector solenoids.
If this symptom occurs, or if you find one or more of the above codes, check the wiring to the CMP for continuity--BOB pin 90 to CMP pin B; BOB pin 65 to CMP pin A; BOB pin 49 to CMP pin C. NOTE: A code P0344 may be set any time the engine is cranked for an excessive period of time. Early CMP sensors were @ 1.152" in length, and with the different materials--plastic sensor, aluminum timing cover, steel tone ring) the air gap would change drastically during engine warm-up. There were TSB's published for shimming the sensors 0.010" to cure these problems as well as the drastic repair of replacing the camshaft--something a Navistar tech assist rep recommended not doing even if excessive end play was verified. There have been two updates to the CMP. One to decrease the length to 1.142", and also to improve the internal circuitry for less "noise". The CMP designed for engines built after serial number 375549 have gold-plated terminals and cannot be substituted with those designed for previous engines.
94-96 CMP: F6TZ-12K073-A; original Navistar part suffix C-96, C-97; replaced by C-98; replaced by C-99
97 CMP: F7TZ-12K073-A; early suffix C-91; replaced by late suffix C-92; both replaced by C-93.
The suffix is stamped on the connector end of the CMP and can be used to identify the level of the part installed. Replace any CMP's with a suffex of C-96, 97, 91 if these symptoms are experienced. Lube the o-ring and connector with silicone dielectric grease when installing.

I'm heading back to Ford in the morning to figure this one out and my question would be if I installed the shorter CMP instead of the longer version I removed would this create my problem.

Still banging my head but haven't given up!
 
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Old Jul 14, 2008 | 09:13 PM
  #5  
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From: Belair md
make sure the pins arnt spread in your connector at the cmp sensor
 
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Old Jul 14, 2008 | 09:17 PM
  #6  
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I think you are probably in the right area. CMP's are hall effect switches. Look at the link below for a very basic way they work. Think of the rotating device as the cam and the yellow blinking light as the CMP sensor. If the sensor is to far away either back, up or down instead of a solid blink you would see just flickers and the PCM would detect that as noise.

Hall effect sensor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The only way I know to check that would be to connect an o-scope and watch the data line real time, although I've never tried it.
 
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Old Jul 15, 2008 | 07:52 PM
  #7  
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stroker393
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From: Butner,NC
I never made it to Ford today to research the different lengths of CPS's for our powerstrokes. I decided to reinstall my OEM sensor that I pulled thinking was bad; truck fired but still had the same problem so I looked at the ICP sensor. Upon pulling the plug I noticed it and the sensor oil soaked and I knew this couldn't be good. I cleaned plug and sensor and replugged it,fired up truck and after volt delay quit the rough idle started so I unplugged the ICP sensor and idle was perfect. I let it run for 5 minutes and reinstalled plug and within 1 minute engine died. I did this 3 times and it reacted the same every time - I believe I finally found my problem; I will post back with an update when I get the new sensor in .

 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 04:25 AM
  #8  
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stroker393
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From: Butner,NC
Installed a new ICP sensor and this cured my problem and also checked on differences in CPS lengths and the Ford CPS for 94-96 is 1.142" as a NAPA replacement (512) is 1.152". I have both and installed both to see if the engine reacts differently and either CPS will work in my situation so length is not an issue.

Thanks to everyone for there help.
 
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