Saving fuel, or... ?
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: in the woods of MA
Saving fuel, or... ?
This obviously applies to automatics only...
A long while ago, when backing up, I got in the habit of dropping the tranny into neutral about the same time I hit the brakes to stop and start forward again. I figured if I'm going to be trying to stop the truck from heading in that direction, why would I want to keep power applied? I'm going to be shifting to forward in a second anyway.
Now I find myself dropping the tranny into neutral at stop lights, then back into drive when the light turns green. Same thinking - why would I want to be applying power to move when I'm trying to stay still?
So the question is (or "are" I guess): Does this save any fuel? Is it easier on the brakes? Does shifting in and out of gear like this introduce extra wear in the transmission or driveline?
A long while ago, when backing up, I got in the habit of dropping the tranny into neutral about the same time I hit the brakes to stop and start forward again. I figured if I'm going to be trying to stop the truck from heading in that direction, why would I want to keep power applied? I'm going to be shifting to forward in a second anyway.
Now I find myself dropping the tranny into neutral at stop lights, then back into drive when the light turns green. Same thinking - why would I want to be applying power to move when I'm trying to stay still?
So the question is (or "are" I guess): Does this save any fuel? Is it easier on the brakes? Does shifting in and out of gear like this introduce extra wear in the transmission or driveline?
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 963
Likes: 1
From: wichita kansas
I've been told that shifting into neutral helps when stopping on slippery surfaces, but have never tried it. A friend of mine that has a trans temp gauge said that when he leaves it in gear the temp goes up, but if he puts it in neutral it doesn't. So if I get stuck by a train or some fairly long stop I put mine in neutral. I don't think that it is good to shift while the vehicle is moving though, but that is just a opinion.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2004
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It doesn't save any gas, even when coasting downhill. When I drive automatics (rarely now) I'll put it in park if I'm going to be stopped for any period of time, but at stoplights and the like, its not worth the effort.
Since it is releasing all the bands and clutches when you put it in neutral or park, there's no problem with shifting it with the vehicle moving. Its probably not a good idea to get into the habit of shifting back and forth between gears unless it has an auto-stick function just because of the extra wear to the clutch packs, but I think the old tales about not shifting gears in an automatic in a moving vehicle is mainly an old wive's tale.
Since it is releasing all the bands and clutches when you put it in neutral or park, there's no problem with shifting it with the vehicle moving. Its probably not a good idea to get into the habit of shifting back and forth between gears unless it has an auto-stick function just because of the extra wear to the clutch packs, but I think the old tales about not shifting gears in an automatic in a moving vehicle is mainly an old wive's tale.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,221
Likes: 6
From: Cow Town, CA
you are not saving any gas, maybe using more becasue the engin can idle at a higher RPM...the breaks dont wear any when they are stoped, you usethng to stop and once the break is not turning it is not being worn, even if you have your foot on the break. to me more shifting = more wear = shorter trans life. but if you wanted to save fuel the only way you might save a little if if when you start to break shift into N and then the RPMs will drop sooner but even then its not really worth the efort...just one more mans opinion....
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: in the woods of MA
I don't think there's any doubt it saves *some* gas, but most likely not enough to make it worth while, maybe not enough even measure without some pretty precise equipment. For instance, oldgoats buddy with the trans temp gauge - the tranny heats up when left in gear. That heat comes from somewhere - from fuel. You won't wear your brakes out when stopped in gear, but again, the energy has to go somewhere. I doubt the engine runs cooler when stopped in gear, it'll probably get hotter. but that's, most likely due to less heat transfer via the cooling system due to slower rpms.
I'm not thinking this is the answer to the energy crisis or anything, just was sitting there (at a light, in neutral) thinking about it...
I'm not thinking this is the answer to the energy crisis or anything, just was sitting there (at a light, in neutral) thinking about it...
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2006
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Consider this:
Recently got a ScanGuageII. It will tell you how much fuel it calculates you use at any moment in time.
When I heard an advertisement from Honda, I believe, about their transmission that shifts itself into neutral at stops, I monitored fuel g.p.m.'s when stopped, both in drive and neutral. Guage says engine uses less fuel in neutral.
Also monitored going downhill, both in drive and neutral. Neutral uses less fuel as well.
I'm just reporting what the ScanGuageII indicated.
When I heard an advertisement from Honda, I believe, about their transmission that shifts itself into neutral at stops, I monitored fuel g.p.m.'s when stopped, both in drive and neutral. Guage says engine uses less fuel in neutral.
Also monitored going downhill, both in drive and neutral. Neutral uses less fuel as well.
I'm just reporting what the ScanGuageII indicated.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: in the woods of MA
Recently got a ScanGuageII. It will tell you how much fuel it calculates you use at any moment in time.
When I heard an advertisement from Honda, I believe, about their transmission that shifts itself into neutral at stops, I monitored fuel g.p.m.'s when stopped, both in drive and neutral. Guage says engine uses less fuel in neutral.
Also monitored going downhill, both in drive and neutral. Neutral uses less fuel as well.
I'm just reporting what the ScanGuageII indicated.
When I heard an advertisement from Honda, I believe, about their transmission that shifts itself into neutral at stops, I monitored fuel g.p.m.'s when stopped, both in drive and neutral. Guage says engine uses less fuel in neutral.
Also monitored going downhill, both in drive and neutral. Neutral uses less fuel as well.
I'm just reporting what the ScanGuageII indicated.
I'm sure we're talking very minute amounts of difference here, but it's interesting to think about.. (at least to me it is!)
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Frequently frozen MN
I second the previous poster about coasting in neutral. For some time now, cars have been designed to cut off fuel completely when coasting.
I read this a while back in Popular Mechanics, and brought it up here to see if it was the real deal. Answers were pretty much 'where have you been -- this is old news'. The reason that they went to that system was to up mileage.
I don't know how much you might save by popping it into N at a stoplight, but I wouldn't do it unless I had a nice slow idle. Hate it when you hear a thunk when you drop it in gear.
I read this a while back in Popular Mechanics, and brought it up here to see if it was the real deal. Answers were pretty much 'where have you been -- this is old news'. The reason that they went to that system was to up mileage.
I don't know how much you might save by popping it into N at a stoplight, but I wouldn't do it unless I had a nice slow idle. Hate it when you hear a thunk when you drop it in gear.
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,585
Likes: 5,613
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
one thing to consider about neutral dropping when going downhill.
you have no control of the driving force with the vehicle in neutral, and in many states, it is illegal.
if you are in an accident, and the L.E.O. can prove you were in neutral, it is considered a your fault accident even if you were an innocent bystander.
and you very well may get a ticket for it too.
you have no control of the driving force with the vehicle in neutral, and in many states, it is illegal.
if you are in an accident, and the L.E.O. can prove you were in neutral, it is considered a your fault accident even if you were an innocent bystander.
and you very well may get a ticket for it too.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: in the woods of MA
one thing to consider about neutral dropping when going downhill.
you have no control of the driving force with the vehicle in neutral, and in many states, it is illegal.
if you are in an accident, and the L.E.O. can prove you were in neutral, it is considered a your fault accident even if you were an innocent bystander.
and you very well may get a ticket for it too.
you have no control of the driving force with the vehicle in neutral, and in many states, it is illegal.
if you are in an accident, and the L.E.O. can prove you were in neutral, it is considered a your fault accident even if you were an innocent bystander.
and you very well may get a ticket for it too.
Anyone remember the old Saab 2 cycles? They had a free-wheeling clutch, When you went downhill if the engine started braking the clutch would effectively release allowing the vehicle to roll freely.
And as I tried to state in my previous post, you might actually be using MORE fuel with the computer controlled EFI if you're coasting down a hill in neutral. The computer will shut off fuel when you're coasting, but ONLY when the engine rpm is above a certain point. If it shut off the fuel when the engine was in neutral, the engine (it's at idle, remember) would die.
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,585
Likes: 5,613
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
well, i know for a fact it applies to passenger vehicles in New Jersey.