[updated:LAST EDITED ON 15-Jul-02 AT 07:11 PM (EST)]>hooked it up and the speaker sounded like *****.

Never said it wouldn't sound like ***** but it will not blow it.

As far as class D. None of my books list a class D type amplifier. I am an Electronic's Technician in the US Navy and never in all my teaching's over the last ten years have I heard of one either.
Russell
1968 F250 LWB 300-6
FORD=First on Race Day
MOPAR=Mostly Old Parts and Rust
GMC=Got a Mechanic Comming

 

Class D amps are digital amps. They're only used for pushing subs, and are usually mono amps. They put out too much noise in the higher frequency levels that mids and highs put out. Too little watts will NOT blow a speaker. If the person at the controls turns the volume up until the speakers distort and keeps it there, then they will blow. It's all about the dude (or chick)who turns that volume ****.It's good to have an amp that puts out good clean power at 4 ohms. It's measured by %THD, or percent total harmonic distortion. A Soundstream amp? No wonder the speakers blew. (sorry) It's safer to have an amp that puts out a little less then the speakers RMS rating. These amps that are rated at fantastic power, like 2000, 1800, or even most 1000 watt amps? They're a joke. They wouldn't put out that much clean power if they were struck by freakin lightning. The ideal is to have an amp that matches your speakers exactly, or even slightly more power, but then you have to be sensible to keep from putting your speakers in meltdown. I just bought an amp that is sold as a 700 watt amp. If you read the specs, that would be at 2 ohms, 14.4 volts, at 8% THD. If you read further, it changes to 400 watts RMS, .03% THD, at the same 14.4 volts. Even calling the so- called "700 watt amp" a 400 wat amp would be stretching the truth a little. How many of you have a 14.4 volt battery in your car/truck? Mine are all 12. I'm using that amp in my boat to drive two sets of Clarion marine speakers. A pair of 6" co-axials that handle 80 watts RMS, and a set of 6" woofer/tweeter combo that handles 100 watts RMS. I used 4 gauge wire to the battery, and good quality speaker wire. Not to use good and large enough wires to your amp and speakers is foolish. Your amp will last longer with large gauge wire, it can put out more wattage.That, and the high quality speaker wire connected properly will insure you're getting the most out of your amp, thus better sound. Sorry for the long post. I guess I went off a little.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 15-Jul-02 AT 09:35 PM (EST)]whatever im not going to argue about it, im almost positive that a speaker can be ruined running too little of power and no one is changing my mind. and by the way i know that amps tend to stretch the truth on their peak power. i have a 2200 watt class d digital eclipse amplifier that puts out only 1200 watts rms. as far as soundstream goes, i told you that this guy was only running a 600 watt amp to a 18 inch subwoofer that runs 1000 rms. this guys amp was probably doing 300 watts.now you are telling me that this is too much power or what? (sorry) the speaker was ruined. we were shocked to see something like that happen, to double check we did call kicker to claim the warranty, the rep on the phone told us that the speaker was underpowered and destroyed it. if you want to argue with a company that manufactures subwoofers go ahead. soundstream is a very fine company and makes great products, im not going to argue about that either. and yes i do know how to match amps up to speakers so you dont have to explain. i do that everyday. this is a stupid thing to argue about so lets argue in a friendly way.

 

To tell you the truth, I thought I was being friendly. I was just trying to help, and speak from almost 25 years of experience of selling and installing, and repairing, systems. As far as what ruined the speakers, it was distortion. The guy wanted more thump, so he turned the volume up too high. Higher volume made his amp overwork, and made it put out mass distortion. It wasn't the too low wattage. It was the person trying to get too much volume out of the wattage that he had. You see what I'm trying to say? Total operator malfunction. The sub channel on the amp in my truck only puts out 200 watts RMS. I have it driving two subs rated at 300 watts RMS each. I've had it for over a year, and I've had no problems. I know it's like talking apples and oranges compared to the high power system you mentioned, but it's the same idea. I know when my subs don't sound right, and I turn down that little control called volume. As far as Soundstream goes, I would not buy that brand, sell that brand, or suggest to anybody to buy that brand. They are worse then Pyramid, and made cheaper. I don't base that on just opinion either, but don't take my word for it. Ask any unbiased person who is familiar with the internals of equipment. Those who repair them know if they're made well or not. Some of my favorites are Rockford Fosgate, PPI, ADS, and of course Eclipse. AS you know, you get what you pay for.

 

So basically the bottom line is know how to operate the equipment.

and know that to little power with distortion is going to ruin a speaker just as fast as overpowering it will.

By the way in the audio world it is referred to clipping because on am o-scope it will look like the signals top or bootom has been clipped off.

I realize that you have a lot of experience with the Navy, but audio rules are a little different when it involves a speaker.

I have been a Audio tech/engineer for the past 8 years.


Brian yes let's argue in a friendly way I am not out to deliberately p!ss anbody off.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 16-Jul-02 AT 02:25 AM (EST)]>To tell you the truth, I thought I was being friendly.
You were i just said lets argue friendly in case it really turns into a firestorm.
o and by the way soundstream by any means i not cheap , heres the 14000 (class d mono) heres are the features
• 350 X 1 Watts
• TST™ (Twin Stack Technology) 2 amplifiers to drive one voice coil effectively doubling the power.
• Fully regulated, MOSFET power supply
• PWM circuitry
• High quality FR-4 circuit board
• Satellite Power Gain (remote gain control)
• Continuously variable 24dB low-pass crossover (50Hz to 150Hz)
• Continuously variable 24dB subsonic filter (50Hz to 150Hz)
• Variable 0 – 18dB subwoofer equalizer @ 40Hz
• Continuously variable phase alignment (0°- 180°)
• Tri-guard amplifier protection
• Intelligent Distress indicator (IDI)
• Platinum RCA input and output
• Platinum 1/0 gauge power inputs
• 1-ohm stable
• 5Hz – 250Hz frequency response
• >80dB S/N ratio
you know how much this costs, 800 bucks for 350 watts, god i hope you get what you pay for! specs look good to me!

 

Use whatever terms make you better understand it. I was just trying to explain the proper terminology. When any amplifier (audio or not) is biased such that the input signal causes it to go into saturation it will not conduct. This period of non conduction makes you see the clipped waveform you are mentioning on an o-scope. Distortion is a term used when describing the reproduction of a signal. When the output of something is different from its input then you have distortion. How much distortion you have is determined by the amount these two signals are different.

As far as audio being different from the rest of the worlds electronics. One question, what kind of electrons are used in audio? That's right!! the very same as is used in all other electronic. Trons is Trons, they all flow!
Russell
1968 F250 LWB 300-6
FORD=First on Race Day
MOPAR=Mostly Old Parts and Rust
GMC=Got a Mechanic Comming

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-10-03 AT 06:28 PM (EST)]

 

>Just curious as to how much one person can spend ona QUALITY
>sound system.


The sky is the limit!

Do you mean just on product though, or on the entire soup-to-nuts "I wrote a check, and at some point in the future picked my completed car up" system?

for the latter, the sky is truly the limit.
You could spend less than $1000 on parts for your system, and have a custom fiberglass enclosure made below your seats, involving cutting metal out of your floor and custom wells welded in, fiberglass work, linear actuators to tilt the seats up to display the custom work...
Maybe a complete removal of your old dashboard to facilitate a line-array installation, with a new fiberglass dashboard built from scratch to prevent any obstructions in the pathlength to your head...
With show quality work and finishing.
You could spend tens of thousands on a system involving equipment that didn't cost you much at all.

Installation is key...
Sound quality doesn't come from quality product...
Sound quality comes from manipulating your acoustical environment in such a way that the sound that arrives at your ears is correct.
All quality products will do is put higher quality sound into the air.. useless if it doesn't combine at your ears properly.
It's better to use ho-hum gear and really nail the install, than it would be to have a set of $10K Rainbow References, and a pair of $1000/per Aura Elans, on a set of Arc or Brax amps installed in stock locations and prefab boxes.


To me, the key though, is not JUST getting the car to sound great..

It's important to me to not only try to avoid looking like a fool by being too cheap, and ending up with flea-market gear in your truck..

But also important to not look like a fool by having $10,000 worth of ultra-high end gear without having a good explanation for "why", and not having an installation situation to take advantage of those products often niche applications... an enthusiast will know you were taken for a ride by the salespeople (never trust shop salespeople .. )

Too much is ostentatious, and transparent to those "in the know", embarassing, foolish looking...
Too little is cheap, immature looking, and enthusiasts unfortunately might not respect it too well, not to mention the product is quite often sub-par.
Strike a balance!

 

 

i spent around $1500 on mine. see my sig for what i have. i saved myself some major $$ by building my own ported box and wiring and installing it all myself. im proud of my system and it has that personal satisfaction to it also.

but as far as how much u can spend...well skys the limit as geo said. most people who have expensive systems are showing off there status.