i was thinking about sending them a sample before i do my next oil change. what all does there report tell me? and when i get it back would some of yal be so nice as to review it and explain some of the numbers to me? thanks for the help

 

Steve, first off, let me answer your questions. The lab will basically give you the breakdown of metals that are present in your oil, reported in PPM. That can give you an idea of how the internals of the engine are wearing. It can also detect any fuel, water, or antifreeze dillution, which would be a sign of a larger problem.

There are quite a few people here who currently do UOA's, so I'm sure there would be no trouble having a few people take a look at it.

FWIW, my opinion of Blackstone has fallen off a bit lately, to the point that I no longer use them. I had a couple of reports telling me that I had antifreeze in my oil, then the next 3 had no antifreeze in them. I didn't do anything to try and correct any leak, and I don't think a coolant leak will just fix itself, so I'm not sure why it was reported then not.

I also know of a sample from a friend where they reported 300 PPM of Magnesium in a gear lube sample. The problem with that is there's no Mag in the diff, and that particular oil that was sampled does not use Mag for an additive. Where did that reading come from? There doesn't seem to be a good answer.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to speak badly about Blackstone. I have nothing against them. However, if I know of some discrepencies in several of their analysis, I'll let you know.

 

Post your results, plenty of folks here to help you decifer the info. Blackstone has a good layout on there report but I feel the same way as JTHarvey - makes me wonder if quality control has gone down the past year. Some of the results & comments the past year have been questionable.

 

alright thanks guys

 

Hey Jeremy and Rich... I just got back my Schaeffer's report yesterday afternoon. IIRC, it took between 2-3 weeks to get the results from them... is that a normal turnaround time?

I'll post my numbers tonight when I get back home. Essentially, they said to increase my intervals to 14,500 miles, and that was based on having run just that one batch of Schaeffer's through the engine. The oil had about 12.5K when I finally got it changed and sampled for the analysis, which I know is nearly twice as long as you guys had recommended me running the first batch, but .... well, you see.... oh shoot.... I got lazy, busy, and distracted, and let more time go by than I wanted to.

 

If I'm in a rush, I'll ship my sample to Blackstone USPS priority and I'll usually get an email response back in about 3-4 days.

 

My response from Blackstone was always very quick as well, but I was also beginning to see some numbers and comments from them in my reports that didn't always square with one another very well. Besides, since I'm running the Schaeffer oil, and they're price is about half that of Blackstone's, coupled with my concerns over the reports, I thought it would bea good time to try out the Schaeffer analysis.

Their report was easy to read, and the 2-3 week delay really doesn't affect much on my end, I just had gotten used to faster turn around times.

 

I thought that too but do you think they will tell you if the metals are high because of the oil since its theirs?????? I would rather have it checked by a lab that is neutral.

 

i didnt even know shaffer did analysis

 

I can assure you that the lab is in no way biased. If there's a major problem with an engine, from results found in the sample, the lab has been known to immediately pick up the phone and call the customer, not just mail the results out.

You've got to remember, Schaeffer's is a family owned and operated business, not some corporate monster that is simply out to make a buck. They want to make customers for life and have happy customers. They rely a lot on word of mouth for advertising. Very little dollars are spent by the company for advertising, with the idea that the savings are passed along to the customer. Now, if the company started to get a bad rap for having biased results in their oil analysis, that wouldn't look so good and do terrible things for word of mouth advertising. Shchaeffers is not some foreign based, money hungry company. It's a genuine, based right here in the USA, out of St. Louis, MO, looking out for you and me, wanting to do what's best for their customers kind of company.

Another thing to consider is this: Schaeffer's has a written warranty that basically states if the lubricant fails during use, the customer will be adequately reimbursed for damages done. If the oil is starting to go bad, wouldn't it be in the lab's best interest to let you know it's time to change it rather than continue to push the interval and risk having to cover expenses to a customer? On the flip side, they wouldn't tell you to change it too soon just because.

The lab is going to tell it like it is. They have no reason to lie about the results. And if you ever had a question about it, there is someone you can call and actually talk to about it. Karen is the super nice lady that's in charge of the lab, and has always been pleasant when I've called.

Pete, the turnaround time is a little longer than what I've seen from Blackstone, but that does seem a little longer than what I've had. Typically I'm looking for results in 7-10 days. Most of the time, the sales rep (if a name of one was entered on the UOA form) will receive a copy of it as well when the hard copy is mailed to the customer.

 

Excellent question, and one that I spent a number of months considering very seriously. To answer your question, though, I currently do not feel that it will be a problem, and I'll explain why (but I do reserve the right to change my mind if down the road I see something different).

Although I do not remember the exact values, I can tell you that the wear metal values reported by Schaeffer's were significantly higher than those which Blackstone had reported repeatedly. While significantly higher, they are also way, way below the max values recommended by Navistar as being "acceptable". That said, the higher values from a different lab do not necessarily mean anything to me at this point, especially since they are still well within acceptable ranges.

I need to see how the numbers "move around" over time, and am still interested in having a split sample verification included every once in a while for my own peace of mind. That same mind, though, is what was becoming increasingly troubled with my observations from my Blackstone reports, which is what lead me to consider Schaeffers. I have already had a discouraging experience with OilGuard's testing services and testing techniques, and will NOT go back to them.

With the multiple reports I received from Blackstone, I noticed several things.
1) they did not recognize my intentions to run longer drain intervals
2) they reacted very strongly to increases in wear metals that were on a percentage basis significant, but on an absolute basis were not significant (i.e. an increase from 6 to 13 ppm Fe would raise alarms with them and they would say I should have changed the oil much earlier, while Navistar reports the acceptable maximum value at a much, much higher level - I cannot put my hands on the table of recomended maximum levels for UOA, but I was shocked at the discrepancy between the OEM recomendations and the reaction levels with Blackstone. From my own 20 years of analytical lab experience, I dare say that most of the difference between a "6" and a "13" can be chalked up to "normal variation".

Soooo.... For now, I will continue to check with Schaeffer's on my UOA, and will also occasionally have a sample split between Schaeffers and some other "disinterested" reputable lab.

 

Thanks, Jeremy. Like I said, I was a little concerned about it, but have to simultaneously admit that the delay wouldn't really make any difference for me... the oil was already changed in this case, and in any other case I can always run a couple of weeks longer before changing since I will not run the engine in such a way that the 2-3 weeks would make a difference.

I am often surprised at how impatient we have all become in our society of "right now" for everything.

 

I've never heard of Schaeffers Oil until I found FTE. Are you running synthetic?

 

I'm close to STL and am interested in Schaeffer's.

I looked on there site and found no info on testing oil.

Little help??

 

Yes, I'm running the Schaeffer 9000 series 5w40 full synthetic. I'm on my second round with it right now. I took my first load to about 12.5K, which is actually 5K longer than Schaeffer recommends for a first run. They recommend "sneaking" up on the 10-15K intervals for several reasons, all of which make good sense to me.... I just took longer than I had planned before changing the oil.

I ran a load of Amsoil DEO 5w40 synthetic for my first load when I got the truck, but the wear metals started trending upwards pretty quickly once I passed the 10K mile mark. I had been wanting to try the Schaeffers, so that's when I made the switch. I can honestly tell you that the engine had a "firmer" sound to it within a very short time of starting up on the Schaeffers. I am very pleased so far, and plan on running a total of at least 3 consecutive changes through the engine before finalizing my decision to either stay with Schaeffer's or try the Rotella-T 5W40 synthetic (which is actually a little more expensive than what i'm runnning today).

To go along with my statements above, Blackstone recommended me changing the oil right away when they tested a sample for me at 8K miles, yet the wear metal numbers were way way lower than the Navistar recommended max's - and I'm not saying that I want to run up to the max values, either, just that their reaction seemed a bit radical to me. Now, after running that oil to 12.5K miles and sampling again for the Schaeffer's test, Schaeffers is telling me that their oil would be good for an additional 2K miles longer than I ran it based on wear metal levels, base stock additive package consituents, etc.

For those of you who want to get more info on Schaeffers, send a PM to either Jeremy (jtharvey) or Rich (White buffalo) and they can help you get any info you need. The sample kits are only $7 per sample, pre-paid, so when you get your sample and mail it in, the deal is done once they send back your report. Schaeffer's does not offer a TBN value, though, but since they are testing their own oil, I chose for now to trust their judgement on how the base oil is holding up.