taken from a local 4x4 club(toontown toys offroad)

original thread can be seen here Toontoys Forums :: View topic - new SGI policy

"As some of you know SGI is now implemented the enforcement of certain policies in the CMVSS. In particular the following two policies that will effect us the greatest:

on tires

(3) A vehicle with a GVWR of 5,216 kilograms (11,500 pounds) or less must not be equipped with oversized replacement tire/wheel assemblies with a loaded static tire diameter, measured horizontally at the wheel hub that exceeds the larger of:
(a) loaded static tire diameter of the manufacturers recommended tire size indicated on the tire information placard required by CMVSS 1109; or
(b) 864 millimetres (34 inches)1.

and bumper heights:

(7) Every truck, multipurpose passenger vehicle, van and bus with a VWR
of 5,216 kilograms (11,500 pounds) or less shall have a front and rear (if required) vertical bumper height not in excess of 750 millimetres (29.5 inches):
(a) when measured from the ground to the bottom of the OEM steel structural bumper component, with the vehicle unloaded on a flat surface with the tires inflated within the range specified by the manufacturer; or
(b) if the original bumper has been modified or if the vehicle is equipped with an after-market bumper, when measured from the ground to the bottom of the frame at the most forward and rearward points respectively, with the vehicle unloaded on a flat surface with the tires inflated within the range specified by the manufacturer

I am encouraging everybody to get involved and go sign up at http://www.ccr4x4.com/phpBB3/index.php Look under news. There is also a copy of the new policy available in PDF from there."

 

thats pretty stiff. wonder of they'll start making guys "unlift" their trucks??

 

Im gonna get some food for thought. Now for on road use I know a guy doesnt need any larger tires then 34 inch, but with the tires coming out stock today, that one is gonna be hard for some guys to swallow.

Now for the bumper heights. I can actually see having a bumper too high as a safety issue. The cold hard fact is that today alot of people drive econo cars, and if a lifted truck with a high bumper ever rear ended one of those econo cars, it could rip the roof right off, possibly decapitatin the person inside. This is all instead of hitting the car in the rear end and demolishing the rear end of the car.

Now should guys be allowed to run around on the streets with huge lifts, and huge tires?

Sure why not, guys are allowed to drive around on the streets in cars lowered right to the ground, to me its the same difference.

 

yes... i'd surely not enjoy having my ankles broken... or my head smacked by a bumper... there's dangers in both, but i see the jacked trucks a greater danger than lowered stuff. no one ever adjusts the headlights after a lift so they are directly shining into the average eyes, the accident issue, but what height is the bumper on a semi trailer??

 

I was talking to a guy who does SGI inspections last week about this.He said there are about 12 pages of new regulations,part of it is frame height can't vary more than a certain distance up or down from stock so the lowered guys don't get away with it either.I have heard reports of some trucks with big tires getting pulled over in Regina so they might already be enforcing it.

 

Sherm and Sheldon - you guys made the points I was going to address - headlights, bumper height vs little cars, stability/steering and brakes. Lots of lifted trucks steer poorly if not well done but the ones that are done right are not too bad. I had a big set of tires once and did not add any brake upgrades and the rotating mass really taxed the brakes. The truck was a Chevy (I know, I know) with a two inch lift along with a 3 inch body lift so it wasnt that radical. Steering and headlights were okay but braking needed to be addressed!

 

I see both as equals, it is not the height being the danger. But there are two kinds of vehichles showing off by speeding, laying patches etc. That is raised trucks and lower cars.

I do not at all agree with SGI tactics in shooting them all but I do agree with the end result....... kinda.

 

Oh and yes I to had a very poorly and dangerously raised truck, now Fomoko1 owns it.

 

yes there are guys out there that dangerously lift their vehicals and have scary supsension, brakes and steering.
but what about the guys (like most club member of the surrounding 4x clubs) that take their time and money to do things proberly and safely? they need to take each case for each vehical and judge accordingly, cause' it is not fair for the people that are doing it right.
how often do you see a highspeed chase in a lifted vehical? what about a lowered one? chances are you will see the lowered one on tv or in the paper before the lifted one.

a guy, or girl that puts time and money into their vehical to do things right is more likely to drive more "proper" and "respectable" if you will. why? they have pride in their vehical and what they have done to it.

a friend from a fellow site worded it best.

"The logic that SGI is using is completly flawed.
My 1995 Ford Mustang GT was built by the manufacturer to handle aprox 240ish HP stock. I can leagly go out and put a blown big block with nos on it under the hood and not upgrade a single other thing. Would my brakes be suficient for the extra power and weight. Would the unibody hold up to the extra force of all that power without being reinforced? How would the car react in a crash with a different sized engine that was not built into the engineers plans when designing the crumple zones ect.
Using this logic any aftermarket power adding device should not be allowed from a cold air intake, to a chip ect.
Lets accept what this is, some one in a position of power at SGI decided that they did'nt like lifted trucks, so they have gone out of there way to make damn near anything that is connected to our hobby in regards to modifications illegal or against there new interpritation of the laws."

 

Well it sounds like its not just lifted trucks, according to what idfergussen said.

But to be honest Marshall, how many guys that lift their trucks nice and high, actually go and do the proper brake upgrades? Some do for sure, it would be ignorant to think otherwise. But the reality is alot of guys dont.

I was basically just addressing the whole bumper height thing too. The headlight issue, and stopping factor are other things associated too.

But Im curious Marshall, why, in your opinion, should guys be allowed to rip around in trucks with bumpers really high in the air. Its an offroad thing, so shouldnt they keep it offroad?

Keep in mind man, Im not a fan of sgi. I dont agree with alot of the ways they do stuff, and to me there needs to be a set of SAFE rules (like bumper heights) that need to be set, but I dont know if they should be the ones to dictate this, and how high the heights should be.

I just wanna know WHY you feel strongly about this is all

Ryan actually put it about the best how I feel in post 7. I dont like the way they do stuff, but I KINDA agree with the end resulty. kinda, not all the way.

 

in all honesty, not very many people run a larger tire than 36". there are a few people that do, and those that do are mostly the ones that will do things right.
but for the majority that do such lifts with a 36" and under tire size does affect braking, but not to the point where it is at all dangerous.
doesnt increase stopping distance much. most vehicals these days(4x4) come with around a 32" tire correct?
adding a tire that is 4" taller in diameter wont effect braking as much as towing a XXXX pound trailer would. you just learn to drive differantly and cope with the minor changes.

so , how can SGI determine that adding an X inch tire unsafe when in theory a trailer is much more unsafe in terms of stopping. is SGI going to ban trailers now too? not at all. will it ever come to it? possibly.

on bumper heights and headlights, legally; unless it has recently changed, trucks do not need a rear bumper. thats why cab and chassis truck come from factory without one. if SGI enforces trucks now need rear bumpers, that means manufactors have to start putting them on before the come into saskachewan otherwise the are considered illegal and cannot be driven on our roads. i would be more worried about frame rails through your car on a cab and chassis than a lifted truck.
front bumpers. your vehical has four gates. left side, right side, rear, and front. the only gate YOU can control is your front. being a lifted truck driver, you should be aware of this and no problems should arise. however accidents do happen; and accidents are indeed accidents.

"But Im curious Marshall, why, in your opinion, should guys be allowed to rip around in trucks with bumpers really high in the air. Its an offroad thing, so shouldnt they keep it offroad?"
as for this comment, a friend of mine summed it up best.
"You know there have been a few times where a traffic obstruction made me have to hit the ditch and driving my lifted truck let me do so with zero damage and full control, thus saving sgi money. Try the same stunt in a passenger car. Also winter driving i wish everyone had big lift and tires, im sick of stopping to help *******es in lowered cars who are stuck on or just off the road causing a road hazard."

before everyone looks at the lifted truck scene, and offroad community as a bunch of hillbilly rednecks, think of those of us that actually use our trucks for our life style and the way we live it.
the outdoors men, that can only enjoy his favorite places without that extra "uummf" from his truck
or that couple that is getting married and wants to go honeymoon someplace out of the norm? the place that you need a lifted truck to access.

but EVEN before you think of those people, think of the one that use their trucks in times of need. for example, snow storms. i remeber one we had last year, or the one before. many members of our clubs where out in their trucks helping people. people that tow trucks, police, and medical services could not access because their vehicals could not keep up and/or compete with the conditions.
for many of us, our trucks; they are our lifestyle, our hobbies, our second loves(first for some) and for many, its our getaway.

please, take the time to actually read the new laws SGI has set out, and get involved and realize that this affects many people.

i have heard that SGI said you cannot put an aftermarket exhaust on 2008+ vehicals. what are the local muffler shops going to do?
eventually, they will be pushed out of bisiness. so will everyother vehical shop intown with the exception of car dealers.

 

you know, lifting a truck leads a person to believe that its an off road vehicle... my quad is my lifted truck, primarily an off road vehicle, and it can't be liscensed. everyone is making good points here, but i'm firm to the fact that normal height citizens shouldn't be in slight danger because you guys want a "lifestyle". trailer your baby to the mud, enjoy, then pull her through town on the trailer while everyone stares and says... man, that must have been fun... i have seen very few lifted trucks that are purpose built. most of them are attention grabbers... those are no exception to the rule.

as for aftermarket stuff on '08's?? that won't happen. i've seen 1/2 dozen fords, 3-4 chebbies, and a handfull of dodges with aftermarket exhaust, all '08 trucks. the only problem is unless you have a good programmer, the cats will have to stay. i haven't been able to find those little eliminators in a long time...

 

Such a good discussion Marshall props for starting a thread on it

I agree with you on the tire thing. I dont see too much or a problem when running a larger tire. For the stopping distance it is easy to compensate, by slowing down earlier. Whether or not every single guy with a larger tire on his truck does that or not is another thing.

Good point about the trailers too. Even a small trailer does increase stopping distance. Once you get so and so big they are required to have electric brakes, which maybe they should require on all trailers?

Now for the bumper talk

I have to disagree with what your friend said. The amount of times he has had to hit the ditch to avoid an accident, or a traffic obstruction, is his fault 100 percent. He was not in control of the front gate of his vehicle. As a professional driver (classs 1a driver) a person learns that you have to look in front of you and be able to tell what is going on in the distance. There is almost ZERO reason that any driver should have to hit the ditch, EVER if he is a careful driver. This makes me think your buddy is not a careful driver, and him having a lift on his truck is the wrong way to "improve his driving. If anything swerving fast in a lifted truck is the exact WRONG thing to do, it would be better off to do that in a non lifted 4x4 truck, maybe even a 2 wheel drive truck.
Now if the only reasons to have a offroad truck, on road, is to avoid traffic obstructions, and help people that get stuck, well Im sorry man i cant buy that. The fact is there is no NEED for a person to have a lifted truck on the road.


Now my trucks arent lifted (even though I have been thinking about a slight 4 inch lift) and I get around just fine in the wintertime with my 4x4. There is absolutly no reason a person needs to lift a vehicle for everyday use. Its definatly a hobby, and guys lift it for mudding, or rock climbing or looks. I can take my 4x4 JUST ABOUT (not every place I know) any place any other lifted truck can go in saskatchewan. I might not make it through all the mud holes, or up all those rocks, but thats where the real "offroad" aspect comes into play.

Now for the lifestyle

Im an outdoors kinda guy. Last year i took my 97 4x4 all over trails and camping all over and down so many crappy roads to get places when i lived in bc. Only mod I had was slightly larger tires, and they were mainly for looks.(although the mt/r's did do well out there).
I dont think of a lifted truck driver as a hillbilly at all. I actually see alot of "rich little spoiled kids" driving these vehicles more then ever. In my opinion it is these kind of drivers that wreck it for the serious 4x4 offroad enthusiast. Ive seen lots of lifted trucks in accidents because an inexperienced driver rolls them, or cant control them (alot of city fellas in northern AB have too much money and jack their brand new trucks right up)

Now I respect that a person has that lifestyle that you mention. I personally think there also needs to be a "happy medium" for that lifestyle, and the safety of everyone else that doesnt have that lifestyle.

Now I wanna ask ya something. This is in regards strictly to the bumper height. Why is it such a problem to have a lower bumper? You can still lift your truck up to a certain point that is much higher then stock. I know you lose a little clearance, but why not just fabricate a "quick latch" type bumper that you can maybe raise and lower when needed?

(maybe thats not legal I have no idea)

I definatly see why some guys are upset. But I do think there needs to be some restrictions due to the safety factor. There is no getting around that safety aspect of it. The higher the bumper, the easier it is to really hurt someone IF that person rear ends into a smaller car.

That is where I think, unless there is a great need for trucks with high bumpers on the roads (which so far there isnt) they need to have a concern for the rest of the drivers.

Now I havent read all the new sgi laws either, cause frankly I hate sgi and ill probably get all worked up and find me a rifle and a clock tower haha. But maybe I should.

As for the aftermarket stuff, I think its unfair for them to dictate what you can and cant do to your vehicle (including lifts) especially if its an upgrade, and doesnt pose a danger to other drivers.

 

I think that the new exhaust systems with the catalytic converters and diesel particulate filters have taken exhaust modifications into the realm of emissions tampering.

 

great post prep, lengthy, but good post!!