I've gotta chime in again. Being a gear head and knowing about top fuel and funny car stats have little if anything in common. Last I checked, a gear head was simply someone who enjoyed messing around with cars and making them go faster quicker, basically a glorified shade tree mechanic. Yes, I know that there are cars making that kind of power, and no I really have no interest in them. Yes, I'm a gear head. I enjoy making my daily driven Mustang the best all around performance car that it can possibly be: mild manners on the street, and still enough power at the track to shut down the ricers.
I agree with Daywalker that money can buy anything. A friend of mine's daily driver is a 91 LX making 380 HP on a stock 302 with a blower. He also built/races a 9 second LX strip-only race car. He also owned a Mustang speed shop in Texas before he moved here so he got all his parts really cheap.
Anyway, let's all be friends now. We all have our own interests. Simple fact is, for a daily driven vehicle, you cannot pump in 24+ pounds of boost and expect the car to survive stop and go traffic everyday. Go with a mild stroker setup, and if you need extra power occasionally, install a "Big Shot" nitrous kit or a low boost turbo. The nitrous is a lot more economical.
Oh, and I'm simple country too. I live in Queen Creek, Arizona.

 

uyour right why bother...also you are so far off with your prices...and the 24 lb boost is for a 220 " rear engine dragster...not the street (read back)...and the 6000 hp was qustioned so thats why i answered and aparently he still does not beleive they have that kind of hp...stangman you said you know t/f and f/c...if you really do tell him the hp...i wont bother you guys any more...and it just dont take money...IT TAKES KNOW HOW AND HEART AND GUTS...daywalker i think you fell short in all those feilds...and stangman i said nothin about your country heritage...that was daywalker...read back again...

 

No offense intended when mentioning my country heritage. I was simply showing that not all of us hicks are clueless. I don't know that anyone is debating that dragsters/funny cars can make insane amounts of horse power, but rather I think that the argument started because the original post, I think, was asking about an engine build-up for a daily driven truck, and when we started talking about enough HP to fly a B-17 I think it drew away from the original post.
To sum it up: Migraine, you obviously know what you're talking about. In fact, if I ever build a funny car I'll make sure and give you a ring for some advice. Daywalker, you're absolutely right that money can buy anything, especially speed with blowers at $3000 a piece plus all of the add-ons that you need to run one. It's not feasable to turn a daily driver into a race car, especially a truck. I do like that build up of a 351 that Migraine mentioned earlier. In fact, if I get real bored when I replace the engine in my Mustang in a few years it might be fun to put in a combo like that, but I'll probably stay EFI and go with a 302 based 347 Street Fighter stroker.
To the original post, there's been a lot of good advice mentioned in the above posts. If you have any more questions, let us know.
Later

 

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-Sep-01 AT 12:20 PM (EST)[/font][p]Prices:
https://asp1.secure-shopping.com/jrmotorsportsltd/showcat.asp?cat=1000000&path=1000000
http://www.bullet.on.ca/muscar.html
http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/html/cars.htm
http://www.keithcraft.com/For_Sale/default.asp

Your right, I was optimisitic about the price. Did you know that Ford only rates the 460 SVO block to 1500HP? The 351 block is rated at 750HP.
http://www.oemfordparts.com/partdetails.asp?PartID=130&CategoryID=12


How about this. (Bottom left corner)
[link]http://daywalker.20megsfree.com/images/pg3.jpg[/link]
Take a look at 808CI pricing. It makes above 1300HP. Like I said, I was optimisitic.

And these are big blocks.


Daywalker
92' F-250HD 351 4x4 xlt 4.10 ZF 5speed supercab longbed

 

I have 352 posts, that does not make me a gearhead. The ignorant country folk thing was meant to be about me, not anyone else.

Daywalker
92' F-250HD 351 4x4 xlt 4.10 ZF 5speed supercab longbed

 

hi guys...well dude your right and wrong about streagnth of blocks and cranks...any one who would run a stock system with the kind of hp should find a new profession...her 351 for the twin turbo was all re-worked...2, 3, and 4 main caps were custom made on a cnc out of 2810 cold rolled steel..not nodular iron like you stock stuf...it was notched and decked...of course it was convewrted to a 4 bolt main which the caps are displayed at 0.20...her crank was made from biilet on a cnc...that crank cost $2600.00 but it will hold all the hp you wanti dont even know why i am telling all this daywalker, you dont have the least notion what i'm talking about...that is what t/f and f/c runs...i wish i was like bernstein and force and amato on the tour...but my budget does not allow mw to put $250,000.00 into a motor...ya you herd me right...but i am not enveious or jealous that they have sponsers and they can...i love my wife very much...if im going to put her into a 7 second ride i want to make sure i buy all the best parts that i can so it does not come apart...i kicked a rod out of the oil pan when i was younger in a alchohal funny car going thru the lights at 6:05 at 220 miles per hour and caught fire...i still have the scars...it was not a pleasrable ride...i would not wish that on my worst enemy let alone take any chances with my wife...daywalfer maybe some one thinks that 4:10 your runing is a little stout for the street and the cant justify $140.00 + $75.00 labor to set it up (thats what i charge) or maybe there stock...but its not my place to say sure you can get from point a to point b quicker if you want to spend that kind of money...maybe that guy cant aford $200.00 + for that...i was never trying to belittle any one...i was trying to share knowledge like we did in the old days but i guess i picked the wrong board...i dont have a jealous bone in my body...i always helped people go fast if that was there wishes...i never begrudged any one...stangman that is a good combination for the street and it will be very respectable at the strip if you can get consistant...i would also run a c-4 being a c-6 weighs alot more and takes 60 horse power to turn it...i like the older style trani's instead of the t series... daywalker you clain not to be a gear head at all...Hmmmm how did you know about horse power at the crank or wheels...maybe your just out classed and not in my leauge...stangman if you ever do decide to stroke get a hold of me if you wish...my good freind owns a performance machine shop and all he does is fords...he grinds all his cranks in house he is noted from all over the contry for making stroker kits...he has 1 of only 5 balancers madefor percise work, i mean spliting hais...3 of them nascar owns 1 shop in texas and him...he can balance a stoked crank down to 1/4 gram on each side...the industry aceptable standard is 4 grams on each side...daywalker just for your records a true high performace internal balance you just dont nead the harmonic balacer and flywheel or flexplate you should also use the input shaft and the first panitary in the trani...if you have any good performace machines shop[s in your area ask them...see dude its not all just money...without know how all the money in the world wont buy you 1 horse power unless you send it to some one else to do it for you...and that why i can have all the work i want...but i am retired and now i dont charge for my services for freinds...i just love g force and speed...if you ever traveled the low 6's maybe then you would understand...daywalker you send me articles that you can find any where...i dont make 460's for lincolns...in matter of fact i just took a 460 and a 9 " out of a 77 lincoln...what was stock horse power then...i dont know but when i'm done with the machine work and the buildup it will have around 1300, of course you dont beleive that either...daywalker the 351w bone that i told you about came out of a 79 grand marquis...it started out as a 2 bolt but now as told you above i gurantee that bottom end will hold 2000+ horse power...did you ever hear of merlin, wakefeild,Pat Musi or Sonny Leonard motors or Pro-Mod motors, or a CART Cosworth or Ilmor...i didnt think so...why can they make that kind of horse power without losing the bottom end...maybe where you live people arent capable of that kind of power...no i do not live in a rich valley...in matter of fact it was a all steel mill vally that shut down when the mills did in the 70's...i dont know if you remember that cause i dont know how old you are...we are just a bunch of old drag racing dudes from the 60's that are just looking for that extra 1/100 to go faster to beat your last buzz so you reach a better high from g force...i get my machining free as i asemble his motors...another racing freind own a speed shop...see daywalker while your siting on your couch watching tv (probaly wrestling) our familys are out the dragstip every weekend and all weekend paying are do's so we can go fast...we barter, we help each other...we dont talk money...if my freind et's is better then mine i dont say its because you have all that money...i say well i built you a strong 1 there...i take pride in my work...stangman you seem like such a nice guy thats trying hard and i feel you are happy when some one suceeds even if you lose...you payed me some nice respect when you said i know what im talking about...that shows me you also know alot about gear heading...we all have to start some where...stangman if you ever nead any advise or help in the future please feel free to ask...i will do all that i can do to help you...daywalker quit questioning other peopls programs exspecially if you dont understand that high tech aplication...and also daywalker GET A LIFE... sincerely

migraine

 

i think the rest of my message got clipped...well its probally for the best...why beat your head agaist the wall...

 

migraine: I don't have anything against you. I thought that 1200HP came out of standard 350 block with a supercharger on it. I didn't know the whole damn thing was custom made. And you never mentioned money so I thought the whole thing was on a $10,000 for engine kind of budget. This was my mistake.

No, not everything you said went over my head, but your ability to gauge my intelligence isn't my problem.

And it was Stangman who asked you about HP at crank and at the wheels not me.

Daywalker
92' F-250HD 351 4x4 xlt 4.10 ZF 5speed supercab longbed

 

hi guys...my mistake daywalker on the crank hp...i apologize...sometimes i get carried away...i live for g-force and speed and hope when i die i fall out just going past the lights or at least a car falling on me...(you can see i'm pretty dramatic too) just a joke guys...i also daywalker have nothing against you...i dont know fords like i should cause i just jumped ship for my wife cause she's into stangs now...before i was a mopar man...ahhhhh ya the hemispherical internal combustion engine...sorry guys got carried away...i have learned in the past 2 or 3 years that i have been doing fords once you understand there internal principal and theory they are capable of massive amounts of horse power and the most torque of all other small blocks...i did find 1 important thing out about fords that i will share with you is that it is all in the heads...if you cant aford full porting and port matching the manifold, wait until you can or you will leave so much horse power on the table...i'm glad now guys we all kissed and made up...(little joke guys)...you guys have a nice nite...migraine

 

I just love a happy ending.;-) I agree that much of the potential power of Ford small block engines is in the heads. That's why I say full ported TFS Twisted Wedge heads with Ported and port-matched Trick Flow intake. That's about the best bang for the buck in my oppinion, though I have nothing against cobra intakes or other heads, especially AFR and even ported GT40 heads. In fact, depending on what I do with my car in the future, my combo will go something like:
-stroke-kit my old engine, probably 331 or 347
-ported Cobra intake
-ported Twisted Wedge heads
-65mm throttle body
-Pro-M 75mm Bullet MAF
-a -303 series cam
-keep everything else more or less stock, minus tranny which I'll probably upgrade to a tremec 3550.
Needless to say, I've got some penny pinching to do before I rebuild.
Later

 

hi stangman...thats a great start...better hang on to your hat when you launch...sounds like you checked out fox lake cnc porting...twisted wedgie's for your aplication should be around $1500.00 fully asembled...those would be stage 1 fully ported...you should always buy your heads as bare castings then buy your valve train sepertly because all the big manufactors use all the cheep componets unless you know the machine shop thats asembling them...when your ready call ron at call fox lake 330 682 8800 he uses good componets...ferra stainless steel valves, iskaderian chrome silicon valve springs, 10 degree chrome molly retainers, 10 degree machined super locks, pc teflon valve seals, arp 3/8 or 7/16's rocker studs, 5/16 special guide plates, hardened shims for proper spring height, and a competition multi angle valve job...fully asembled for around $ 1500.00...thats a great price...i decides to fo with victor jr. heads and intake for the wifes 67 stang because with a 351w they dont make a shelf header for her aplication...you have to get custom made headers that cost about $600.00 +...with victor serious i just bought her a set of dyno max feaders that are 2 1/4 tuned 30" tubes and are alse jet coated ceramic inside and out that will nevewr burn out or discolor for the great price of $ 209.00 that will bolt right up...before you buy check your aplication...this is real important to stangman so do not forget what im about to tell you...do not buy wedgies that are 3 years old or older...they had so much trouble with their geometry in there valve train all they did was eat valve guides up...i mean even bronze alloy ones...they say now that they re did their geometry and found the problems...i dont know any one who is runing them...for $1500.00 for stage one's for your aplication and $ 5300.00 for "r" stage 3 for my wifes i dont want to be there test subject...if you know any one who has a flow bench they will have the data stored...for stage 1 what you would be using the int. flow is 281 cfm @ .600" and exh is 210 @ .600" you should also check canfeilds packages... hope this helps...good luck migraine

 

Migraine, I'm a little confused on your header comment. The TFS TW use the stock exhaust port (and intake) location.

The TW did have problems a few years back(more than 3) and it was attributed to the pedastal mounts more than any thing. They will ONLY sell stud mount heads now. Nothing cracks me up more than when people say you don't have to adjust a pedastal mount Ford rocker arm. Not only is it EZ but it's CRUCIAL during set up.

Canfields do seem to be the hot new kid on the block(165 and 185) but they are already CNC'ed from AFR. The TW flow very close with just clean up and seem to have more over all potential. Canfield is making a 205cc head now but I haven't seen the result.

Do you ever go to Corral.net??? The head wars there are interesting to say the least. ED Curtis seems to be the guru that knows the ropes the best and the last I've heard he's still partial to TFS. The cool thing is this guy will grind a cam to whatever head you have, before or after work has been done, which to me is the single most important mod you can do.

 

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-Sep-01 AT 05:52 PM (EST)[/font][p]hi ivstang...your right about the headers...i had my notes crossed...i ment to say dart head...from the flow reserch that i have done wedge's (r) out of the box wiil hold about 580 hp without no porting...i dont agree with you about the pedastals though...i understand thats what they were saying...i think the problem was also the wrong guides...now they use bronze, before they did not...on the camshafts today being that so many manufactors have so many diferant grinds available, why would you nead a custom grind...they even have them for jr. dragsters now...i used to use lunatti untill holley bought them out and there quality control kinda took a nose dive...then i went to comp and a freid of mine gave me a core (before grind) and told me to indicate it...there was 0.15 to 0.30 diference...so now we decided for all the money we have in our power plants we switched and went to ultra dyne...alot more money but more presice grind...this is a off the wall queation but since your name has stang in it, do you know how much a 67 mustang fastback would weigh stock...have a nice nite migraine

 

Curb weight is around 3300-3500 lbs if I remember correctly. My aunt is the original owner of her 67 Fastback.
Later

 

hey stangman...thanks dude...migraine