Why do we Still Have Starters?
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,385
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From: Mercer County, OH
Why do we Still Have Starters?
I spend a lot off time behind the wheel and I get to thinking about stuff...
With electronic ignition, fuel injection, crank position sensors and engine management computers, shouldn't we be able to start an engine just by injecting fuel into the proper cylinders and fire the sparkplugs?
With electronic ignition, fuel injection, crank position sensors and engine management computers, shouldn't we be able to start an engine just by injecting fuel into the proper cylinders and fire the sparkplugs?
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,127
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From: Lewistown, PA
You would still need something to "start" roating the engine to draw in and compress the air/fuel so the spark plugs can ignite the air/fuel mixture as opposed to tryin to ignite a puddle of liquid fuel.
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2006
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I've thought about this myself, and I think I've come up with a better idea. Why not attach a length of stiff metal to the end of the crankshaft on the front of the engine, extend it out to the front of the vehicle with a handle on it to turn the engine over while the key is in the "on" position? This would eliminate the starter and save a lot of money, in my opinion. Who's with me?
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2008
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I've thought about this myself, and I think I've come up with a better idea. Why not attach a length of stiff metal to the end of the crankshaft on the front of the engine, extend it out to the front of the vehicle with a handle on it to turn the engine over while the key is in the "on" position? This would eliminate the starter and save a lot of money, in my opinion. Who's with me?
If you want to fire up a 460 using a hand crank be my guest, I'll stick with my conventional electric starter.
Super Moderator
Joined: Apr 2004
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Next time I engineer a new engine from a clean slate I'll think about it......
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Postmaster
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From: SE Wyoming
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Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: The Big, Oregon
Well, if you're going to go that route-
With all the chemical technologies, why do we need to change the oil? Why do parts wear out? Why do tires wear out? Why do brakes wear out?
I think a starter isn't that bad of a failure item. I know they can be a pain to replace, but how often do you really replace them?
With all the chemical technologies, why do we need to change the oil? Why do parts wear out? Why do tires wear out? Why do brakes wear out?
I think a starter isn't that bad of a failure item. I know they can be a pain to replace, but how often do you really replace them?
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2006
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Could happen
So I was at the truck show last year and one of the exhibits shows this up-and-coming technology whereby a quite large alternator is installed (somewhere) inside the bell housing. This power supply drives all parasitic loads electrically...so your fan, water pump, oil pump, air compressor, air conditioner....everything except the camshaft was driven electrically.
It is only a small task to install electronic switching gear to make that alternator into a starter.
So, I guess it's already been done, at least on paper.
It is only a small task to install electronic switching gear to make that alternator into a starter.
So, I guess it's already been done, at least on paper.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,476
Likes: 224
From: Frequently frozen MN
There actually was some discussion about eliminating starters. This was when they were trying out electrically acuated valves. Never went anywhere because the whole 42 volt electrical system turned out to have problems.
Thought was that with the electrical valves, they could seal seal the cylinder whenever it was close to the right position. Apparently they thought that they could get enough of a pop to get things going even without compression. Does seem tricky. I wouldn't want to rely on it at -25 ( that's F , not those wimpy C degrees).
My Dad did use one of those mechanically operated starters fairly often when we had a Model A-- wanted to 'save the battery'.He never complained that they removed that option when he got a newer car.
ford2go
Thought was that with the electrical valves, they could seal seal the cylinder whenever it was close to the right position. Apparently they thought that they could get enough of a pop to get things going even without compression. Does seem tricky. I wouldn't want to rely on it at -25 ( that's F , not those wimpy C degrees).
My Dad did use one of those mechanically operated starters fairly often when we had a Model A-- wanted to 'save the battery'.He never complained that they removed that option when he got a newer car.
ford2go
Gone but not forgotten.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,521
Likes: 2
Well, if you're going to go that route-
With all the chemical technologies, why do we need to change the oil? Why do parts wear out? Why do tires wear out? Why do brakes wear out?
I think a starter isn't that bad of a failure item. I know they can be a pain to replace, but how often do you really replace them?
With all the chemical technologies, why do we need to change the oil? Why do parts wear out? Why do tires wear out? Why do brakes wear out?
I think a starter isn't that bad of a failure item. I know they can be a pain to replace, but how often do you really replace them?
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,511
Likes: 0
From: Marion, VA
So I was at the truck show last year and one of the exhibits shows this up-and-coming technology whereby a quite large alternator is installed (somewhere) inside the bell housing. This power supply drives all parasitic loads electrically...so your fan, water pump, oil pump, air compressor, air conditioner....everything except the camshaft was driven electrically.
It is only a small task to install electronic switching gear to make that alternator into a starter.
So, I guess it's already been done, at least on paper.
It is only a small task to install electronic switching gear to make that alternator into a starter.
So, I guess it's already been done, at least on paper.