Engine Swap Inexperience
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Engine Swap Inexperience
I've got a '78 F250 with a 351M in it. It used to have a 460, but was swapped out for an unknown reason in a previous life. I'd like to put a 460 back in it. I found a guy parting out an '88 F250 with a 460. He's selling the engine for $500. He's going to start it up for me before we pull it this weekend, so I'll know that it runs. I've never pulled an engine before, and I'm afraid of making a mistake. Here are some questions I have:
Will I have any problems putting the '88 engine in a '78 chassis? I doubt I would, but are there things I should look out for? Exhaust, engine mounts, etc?
I'm in California, so I called the BAR to find out what smog problems I'd have. They told me that it's fine as long as the '88 is carburated, and it is. If it was EFI, I'd have to meet the '88 smog rules. That seems stupid to me, but whatever.
I'm gathering up a few friends with even less automotive experience to help. The guy who owns the truck will help me pull the engine, so that's good.
Please share any suggestions, or things to look out for. I'll be pulling it this weekend and I want to make sure I do that right. I can take my time with the rebuild, as I won't need this truck running till late summer.
Thanks in advance.
-D
Will I have any problems putting the '88 engine in a '78 chassis? I doubt I would, but are there things I should look out for? Exhaust, engine mounts, etc?
I'm in California, so I called the BAR to find out what smog problems I'd have. They told me that it's fine as long as the '88 is carburated, and it is. If it was EFI, I'd have to meet the '88 smog rules. That seems stupid to me, but whatever.
I'm gathering up a few friends with even less automotive experience to help. The guy who owns the truck will help me pull the engine, so that's good.
Please share any suggestions, or things to look out for. I'll be pulling it this weekend and I want to make sure I do that right. I can take my time with the rebuild, as I won't need this truck running till late summer.
Thanks in advance.
-D
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From: San Diego CA
Should be direct bolt in as far as mounts and tranny. Exhaust will be different so make sure you get manifolds and "Y" pipe or at least a foot of each side exhaust pipe if you can. Start at the top and work down. Disconnect wires at harness plugs and keep as much as the guy will let you. Throttle linkage, Fuel lines hoses. exhaust all want to be taken with the engine if possible. Take your time make sure you have everthing disconnected or unbolted. Pull it up a little, check, pull some more, check, and so on untill it is clear and out.
Tuned
Joined: Jun 2007
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Not all that hard it really is just a matter of disconnecting and unbolting everything you can find. The two areas you could potentially overlook are the starter motor and the flexplate (assuming it's an auto trans but you'll still have to unbolt something if it's a manual). The starter isn't too bad to get out if you have a selection of ratchet extensions and swivels to work with. Besides the bolts holding the transmission to the block, the flexplate on the engine is bolted to the torque converter. There'll be some kind of removable plate around the front of the bellhousing that allows access to those bolts and odds are you'll have to crank the engine around a little at a time to rotate all the bolts into view. You could potentially kick the starter to accomplish that but it's probably easier to crank the engine by hand using a breaker bar.
Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: SW VA
Basically unbolt and unplug anything that is attached to the engine. I just pulled the 460 out of my Bronco last week.
Take the starter off, and unbolt the tranny while you are under there (6 bolts), and the engine mounts. Take everything off the front of the engine (fan, pulleys, alternator, and power steering pump), exhaust manifolds, and don't forget to remove the radiator. The engine will have to slide forward about 4" before it will clear the tranny bell-housing. Throttle linkages, oil pressure sensor (on the back, behind the intake manifold) as well as a few vaccum lines that are back there as well, and the dipstick. I forgot and bent my dipstick after it got caught in the headers.
Now, The '88 will be more complex as it has more wiring and vaccum lines running about...but it will still have the basics I mentioned.
Take the starter off, and unbolt the tranny while you are under there (6 bolts), and the engine mounts. Take everything off the front of the engine (fan, pulleys, alternator, and power steering pump), exhaust manifolds, and don't forget to remove the radiator. The engine will have to slide forward about 4" before it will clear the tranny bell-housing. Throttle linkages, oil pressure sensor (on the back, behind the intake manifold) as well as a few vaccum lines that are back there as well, and the dipstick. I forgot and bent my dipstick after it got caught in the headers.
Now, The '88 will be more complex as it has more wiring and vaccum lines running about...but it will still have the basics I mentioned.
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Alright, you guys are offering lots of great advice. I'm starting to feel like I can handle this. One of my buddies just had surgery, so he won't do any lifting, but he'll be tasked with writing down what we do and taking photos of what we're doing. Hopefully this will make putting it back together much easier.
Once I get it out and have a look at it, I'll see how much rework the engine needs. What are some typical rebuilding changes that we should perform while it's out? Should we put some new rings on the pistons? Change every gasket? Freeze plugs? Even though this engine is going into the ugliest truck I've ever seen, I'm considering painting it just for some comic value.
Thanks for the help!
Once I get it out and have a look at it, I'll see how much rework the engine needs. What are some typical rebuilding changes that we should perform while it's out? Should we put some new rings on the pistons? Change every gasket? Freeze plugs? Even though this engine is going into the ugliest truck I've ever seen, I'm considering painting it just for some comic value.
Thanks for the help!
Elder User
Joined: Jul 1999
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From: Missouri
If the engine runs good don't do anything to it. just put it in your truck.Do both trucks have automatic trannys? You will need to get a set of swap motor mounts such as L&L's L&L Products The 88 mounts won't work on a 78 truck.
Tuned
Joined: Jun 2007
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If you do decide to freshen it up I'd hone the cylinder walls a little, change the rings, the gaskets, the bearings (you can get away without changing the cam bearings). New oil pump doesn't hurt while you're in there. If the freeze plugs are solid you can get away with leaving them that way and just poke, prod, or suck the worst of the deposits out of the cooling passages. Having the heads rebuilt is up to you, it's something that can be done later on with the engine in the truck. I don't know if 88s have the messed up timing setup but if so that's something else you can do.
Come to think of it I'm not sure offhand if an 88 460 will take a mechanical fuel pump like the 78 needs...someone here will know....if it doesn't then you just have to get a timing cover and cam eccentric off another engine. Well that or use an aftermarket electric pump and a regulator.
Like the man said though if the engine runs well and doesn't spit oil at you I'd get away with as little as possible. Look into that fuel pump thing though.
Come to think of it I'm not sure offhand if an 88 460 will take a mechanical fuel pump like the 78 needs...someone here will know....if it doesn't then you just have to get a timing cover and cam eccentric off another engine. Well that or use an aftermarket electric pump and a regulator.
Like the man said though if the engine runs well and doesn't spit oil at you I'd get away with as little as possible. Look into that fuel pump thing though.
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Freshman User
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dont mean to steal yer post but i'm doing a similar swap and didn't see the point in making a new one. I wanna put a 78 460 with roller cams and a holley 750cfm plus c6 tranny, into a 71 f-100 that currently has a puny 240 inline 6. just wondering if I might run into any structural issues and how much work and money putting in this beast will be.
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Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: SW VA
I forgot to mention:
Bring a box of Ziploc bags and a Sharpie!
Label every bolt that comes out of it. Put the engine mount bolts in a bag and label it. Put the tranny bolts in another bag and label it, etc, etc....
I used about 25+ bags in all after completely disassembling my engine.
Bring a box of Ziploc bags and a Sharpie!
Label every bolt that comes out of it. Put the engine mount bolts in a bag and label it. Put the tranny bolts in another bag and label it, etc, etc....
I used about 25+ bags in all after completely disassembling my engine.
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sum-weirdo, what do you mean by the messed up timing setup? What is the problem and what is the fix? I'll find out about the fuel pump. But, I'm not against putting in an electric pump and regulator.
greenhighboy, thanks for the link for the engine mounts. The truck originally had a 460 in it. Will that help me in any way? I'm always confused when it comes to which mounts work with which engines and which years.
ATC, thanks for the zip-loc and sharpie suggestion. I had thought of bringing bags, but I forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me!
Ford71, sure use this thread to discuss things. Maybe I can learn something from your experiences.
greenhighboy, thanks for the link for the engine mounts. The truck originally had a 460 in it. Will that help me in any way? I'm always confused when it comes to which mounts work with which engines and which years.
ATC, thanks for the zip-loc and sharpie suggestion. I had thought of bringing bags, but I forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me!
Ford71, sure use this thread to discuss things. Maybe I can learn something from your experiences.
Tuned
Joined: Jun 2007
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After 71 or 72 I think Ford started using a timing gear that retarded the cam a few degrees and limited power, it was one of those 70s emissions things. Most people on here will tell you it's worth getting a non-retarded timing set for an older truck or from the aftermarket.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: EXTREME southwest CT
After 71 or 72 I think Ford started using a timing gear that retarded the cam a few degrees and limited power, it was one of those 70s emissions things. Most people on here will tell you it's worth getting a non-retarded timing set for an older truck or from the aftermarket.
If you get one for a pre'72 the '0' will put a tooth directly above the keyway.
If you get one for '72-'87 the 'A' will put the tooth above keyway.
After early '87 with the advent of FI, Ford went back to "straight up" cam timing.
BUT.... the '88 was NOT carbureted, and the heads won't fit a carburetor manifold, so I don't know what you really have.
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Well, we pulled the engine yesterday. It took about 6 hours and was relatively painless. I haven't taken it out of the back of my truck and inspected it on a stand, yet. We did listen to it run before we pulled it, and it sounded good. But, the engine had a fair amount of rust on it. The coolant lines were very muddy, though. I'm not sure how big of a problem that is.
Is it possible to get the engine working while it is on the engine stand? Is this a worthwhile or dangerous idea?
I'll post some pictures later as check out the engine. I hope it will be interesting enough that some of you will follow along and help.
-Dan
Is it possible to get the engine working while it is on the engine stand? Is this a worthwhile or dangerous idea?
I'll post some pictures later as check out the engine. I hope it will be interesting enough that some of you will follow along and help.
-Dan
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
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From: EXTREME southwest CT
You should probably try and flush the block before you install it too, to keep from sludging up your radiator and heater core.
Is it possible to get the engine working while it is on the engine stand? Is this a worthwhile or dangerous idea?
On a regular stand there's too much torque, no real way to hook up a starter and cooling system, ect...
You heard it run, call it good!
BTW, what year did he tell you it is??