So, 3 days ago, my truck won't restart after giving a buddy a hand. I'm facing uphill, so no dice on the pop-start solution.

I let it run downhill in neutral, out of the dead-end alley, and into convenient angle parking across the street.

Next day, pick up a reman starter from NAPA, slap it in during a ridiculous snowstorm, and try to fire her up. Good spin, no fire.

Now, I checked everything, and the most pertinent facts seem to be: a) The oil level is far too high, I have not overfilled it and it's at least a 1/2" over the fill line, b) the coolant was low, I added coolant, and now it is low again, c) the overflow reservoir has been grimy with an oil/coolant mixture since I got it 2 years ago.

Now, I can't even get spin on the starter. I thought the starter might be siezed up, OK, I'll take it out and get a replacement from NAPA again, on warranty.

But when the tow came to pick me up today, so the truck can at least be in front of my house, we tried to pull start her, just to see.

Tried to pop the clutch twice, nope, the rear wheels screeched.

So is my "new" reman starter seized, or could the engine have siezed from the apparent, I'm assuming now increased, coolant flow into the block?

I need some direction here. I already took my old starter to NAPA for the core charge, only realizing on my way out that I should have brought it to Advance for the bench test, and held onto it a day or two longer . . .

Anyway, thanks for reading. I look forward to sage advice.

maehkasew
_________________________________
1987 F350 Crewcab 6.9L 420 cid
90,000 miles? 190? 290?
No mods, except for the odd ray-wel air cleaner cover deal.

 

I forgot something, during the troubleshooting of trying to get it to start, I removed my week-old fuel filter to check for gelling. No gel, but only about 1/4 to 1/3 full. Added Power Plus Diesel 911, and fuel, and put it back on. Checked it again after a few unsuccesful starting cycles, still full. Here's what I think is important: after reattaching the filter, and a couple more of the same cycles through, checked the schraeder valve, no fuel, no air, nothing, no pressure.

Now what's that about, on top of the rest of my saga?

 

You can loosen the plug in the oil pan and see if there is coolant in the pan. You also want to turn the engine over by hand. Pulling to truck will very likely bend a rod. I have seen starters bend rods.

If you cant turn the motor over pull the glow plugs out and see what cylinders have the coolant in them.

 

...by turning the fan, or, what? btw, good point, hadn't thought of that. If I can get it to move, then it's the starter, beyond that, I will be draining the oil, at least to get the level down. Will the coolant rest below the oil then, oil being thickerr than water, right?

And pull starting can bend a rod? Can a coast start do the same?

 

i would guess the reason the engine wont spin over with the new starter is because it sounds like you have bad head gaskets and the cylenders is filled with coolant. believe me water cant be compressed, if you could take all the glowplugs out and spin it over by hand to drain as much of the water out the cylenders.

 

My guess is you have two problems.
The first is an air intrusion probem, that is why the fuel filter was almost empty.

The second problem is probably a blown head gasket.
Coolant in the cylinder causes a condition known as hydrolock, because coolant does not compress.

Remove the oil pan plug, water is heavier than oil, so it will settle to the bottom of the pan.
Another indication would be white milky looking stuff on the dip stick, but if the engine has not run for a while most of that may be gone.

Pull starting is worse than the starter, more torque on the crank than a starter can produce.
Same with coast starting.

Remove all the glow plugs and turn the engine over using the bolt in the end of the crank that holds the harmonic balancer on.
The glow plug hole the coolant comes out of is where you problem is.
As soon as I say that, I also have to say that the coolant can and will drain into the oil pan through the ring gaps after it sits for a while after the coolant is as low as head gasket that has failed.
Filling the radiator with water will refill the problem cylinder, but below freezing temps can create even more problems if the water freezes in the oil pan/oil system/cooling system.

 

OK, hydrolock. Sounds better than anything bent or siezed...

I'll try the turnover of the engine, but, for clarification, you mean to turn the engine over like cranking, right? Not spinning it upside down to drain out tof the glow plug holes? Having limited experience, and no garage to speak of (in order to squeeze my truck into it's confines takes some maneuvering, and requires it to be running!), this is all going to be done on the street unfortunately, but with proper receptacles for all liquids. I can after all fit a bucket under my truck.

So, I will pull plugs, turn over the engine manually, and see what I can see.

It's loking to be cold the next few days, so no filling with water to see about refilling cylinder here. I think perhaps recycling/refilling with drained fluids may be the way to go, if'n I can't see anything with the first option.

I knew that Haynes Diesel Engine Rebuild book would come in handy one day...

Thank you gentlemen, you're advice has gotten me past giving in and calling a shop.

As to air intrusion, can I get a little advice ther also?

 

Between the injectors are rubber lines that attach to plastic tee's on each injector.
This is the return line for excess fuel.
Under each plastic tee there are two rubber O rings that seal the tee to the injector body.
Over time, the hot fuel makes these O rings hard and they don't seal as well.
This is also a very good reason to not disturb the return line, if you move it, the O rings probably will not reseal.

When the engine is not running, since the return line is open to the tank, which is much lower than the engine.
With the fuel wanting to return to it's own level in the tank, a vacuum is created in the return lines on the engine.
If any of the lines let air seep in, the vacuum is broken and allow the fuel to return to the fuel tank.
The return line on the filter will siphon the fuel out of the filter as well.

The result is air on top of the fuel in the filter, so when you start the engine it runs until the fuel in the IP is burnt, which is then replaced with the air in the filter.

So the engine does not run from lack of fuel till the air works it's way through the injection system.

Since air molecules are smaller than fuel molecules, air will leak into places that fuel will not leak out of, which makes finding air leaks very hard.

Air intrusion is probably the most frustrating problem to find on an IDI engine.

When you have air intrusion, the easiest thing to do is replace every return line on the engine as well as the return tees and O rings, then hope you replaced the item that was leaking.

 

Most fluids behave like a solid when you try to compress it.
That is why boats float and hydraulics work to transfer energy.

Since the piston to head clearance is so close at TDC, any fluid in the cylinder will cause the piston to stop on the compression stroke like it ran into a solid.

This sudden stop can break pistons, bend connecting rods, break cranks or damage the heads and head bolts.

Using basic quick math the piston is compressing 52.5 cubic inches into 2.3 cubic inches on the compression stroke on a 6.9.
So if there is more than 2.3 cubic inches of water/coolant in the cylinder, the piston stops dead when the piston with water on top of it hits the cylinder head.

All of the rotating force of the crank is transfered to that one piston/rod/crank lobe and cylinder head in that cylinder to stop rotation.

The starter or the pulling force towing the truck is just more forced added to the rotating mass of the engine rotating assembly that is transfered to that single cylinder/piston to stop.

 

Thanks again Dave, for the detailed info and explanation, helps to get my head around all of this.

Having now identified and located the Harmonic Balancer, I find I have no wrench large enough to turn it . . . or maybe I do. I'll check and try it, or call around to advvance or the local harbor freight to see if anyone is still open, otherwise it'll wait til tomorrow...

 

You will need a socket, short extension and a breaker bar.
I use 1/2" drive socket set when I do most of my engine work.
Right now I am thinking that bolt has a 15/16" head on it.

 

So, I pulled all the plugs and turned the engine over manualy. Liquid shot out of number 7, passenger rear. The liquid turned out to be diesel fuel. An idiot trying to help where the truck originally broke down suggested pouring fuel down the air intake throat, I said no, and I think he did anyway when I was in the cab . . . so, it's not coolant in the cylinders, however I still think I have coolant draining to the pan. No chance yet to drain the oil or cooling system, so no confirmation on that.

While all glow plugs were out, cleaned 'em up with some steel wool, reinstalled, and tested. 2 are bad, now in the #'s 5 and 7 cylinders. I'm going to pick up 2 to replace them tomorrow, an then we'll see.

Just wanted to update. I see so many threads just cut off after a few give and takes, and then it's like the guy just fell off the face of the earth. You assume it all worked out, but what if it's all gone horribly wrong after that?

Anyway, I'll continue the efforts, and update as news comes in...

 

btw Dave, that was exactly right as far as socket size.

Also, I seem to be missing a part, I think. Can I post pics here yet?

There is a wiring coming off the gp harness, one goes into the block, and the other to nothing in the area. It's too short to go very far, and no conection within it's reach.

I'll try to post a pic . . .

 

Will the engine turn over with the glow plugs out with the starter? Might want to try that to get more fuel out. The starter will spin the engine faster so the fuel should come out faster and more efficiently.

 

I am holding the wire in the photo that I reference above.

The spot directly to the right of the wire and my hand, the 3 bright points are bolt holes, is where I think a part may belong. Part of the fuel delivery system I believe.

Please advise.