Can a M-block motor be a 4 bolt main? the motor i want to build for this truck should be pushing 435hp i have heard everyone saying the bottem end on the M-block is the weakest ford motor i dont want to be going along put my foot to the floor get it spinning some high rpms and have all that money go down the drain. If i cant turn it into a 4 bolt main would a stud girtle for a 351W work on it?

Thanks
Curtis
77_F150_4x4 aka
"The BeAsT"

 

Without getting into a huge "you know what" contest, don't believe everything you read in this forum especially from guys who've never built a 400. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the bottom end of the 400 motors. The cranks are excellent and the mains are as strong as any Ford makes. A stud girdle isn't a bad thing but one from a W motor won't fit. You'd probably have to make one/have one made. I don't think 400+ hp will put a huge strain on the bottom end anyway. If you're still worried then get a later model truck block, D7TE casting, and use it as the basis for your buildup.

 

What year was the D7TE put into trucks and what was diffrent about it? This motor will be going into my 77 F150 4x4 after I get it done and restored i want to go with a 5 speed or 6 speed tranny make a pure street truck out of it. I planned on porting and polishing the heads having the block punched .030 over 351C Keith black flat top pistons, Weiand Action plus intake 750cfm holley, You guys that have built the 400s is the comp cams 268H cam dur.218/218 lift.494/.494 rpm range 1,500-5,500 going to be good for this motor or will i need something more like the Lunati Bracket Master 2 cam dur.224/234 Lift.536/.562 rpm range 2,000-6,000? Or would i be better off going with a all roller valve train? if I can find a roller cam and lifters. Im not trying to start conflict about these motors i dont want to use a big block i want to use my M-block.


Thanks
Curtis
77_F150_4x4 aka
"The BeAsT"

 

>What year was the D7TE put
>into trucks and what was
>diffrent about it?

Curtis,

The D7TE block was OEM in all 1977-1982 trucks with either 351M or 400 engines. The M-block (351M/400) was redesigned for truck use when Ford introduced it in trucks in 1977. The main bearing support webs in the block were beefed up from previous car-only blocks. Cars got the "truck" improvements in 1978 in the D8AE block.

>i want to go with
>a 5 speed or 6
>speed tranny make a pure
>street truck out of it.

Your only easy option is the later model 5-speed ZF used behind the 460 in F250/350 trucks. To use that tranny in a '77, you'll have to replace the tranny crossmember and (probably) the transfer case, and replace the driveshafts, maybe with custom units. You might also have to rig up a hydraulic clutch for it.

>I planned on porting and
>polishing the heads having the
>block punched .030 over 351C
>Keith black flat top pistons,

So are you using the KB pistons or the Ohio pistons?

>Weiand Action plus intake 750cfm
>holley,

Weiand no longer makes the Action Plus series for the M-block. The only current Weiand manifolds for the M-block are the Stealth series.

>You guys that have
>built the 400s is the
>comp cams 268H cam dur.218/218
>lift.494/.494 rpm range 1,500-5,500 going
>to be good for this
>motor or will i need
>something more like the Lunati
>Bracket Master 2 cam dur.224/234
>Lift.536/.562 rpm range 2,000-6,000?

The Comp 268H you mentioned will probably not get you to 400 hp. Also that 0.494" lift is not even sufficient to take full advantage of the flow that non-ported stock M-block heads will support.

I'd recommend something closer to the Lunati cam, or something like the Comp 265DEH, or the Crower #15241 cam Bill used in his engine. The Comp DEH or Crower should get you close to 400 hp. If you want more, go with the Lunati cam, or maybe the slightly milder Comp 280H HotRod custom grind (FF5433/280H-3H110+4) with 224/230 @ 0.050" duration and 0.525/0.529" gross lift.

>Or
>would i be better off
>going with a all roller
>valve train?

Money talks, as they say. If you're serious about winding it up enough to get well over 400 hp, then the roller cam might be the way to go, but you have to be prepared to spend the money on everything else that high rpm requires, in addition to the cost of the roller cam equipment.

Up to 400 hp or so is easily attainable with the proper selection of components and within a reasonable high performance engine budget (say $4-5K or so), but getting very much over 400 hp takes a quantum leap in cost.

BubbaF250

 

Along with the bigger cam you really want to concentrate on the heads. That's where your power is going to come from. Seriously consider going with the bigger 4V valves to go with the high lift longer duration cam. A roller valvetrain will also need to have the pedestals milled, drilled & tapped for 7/16" studs. I wouldn't use the conversion kit that Crane sells for that kind of power.

 

Hmm i dont want to loose the NP205 I will have to talk to a friend i know that works at roush when he gets a day off whenever that is. The Keith Black pistons will go in my all out motor, the Ohio pistons will go in the buget 400. I hadent checked holley web site i just got my new Summit and Jegs catalogs they still have them listed in there. The cam will be the Lunati kit i like the thought of a complete roller set up but i dont like the thought of $300 for lifters and another $275 for a cam. I do have another option for power the guy at roush said they could put a superchager on it. The 4V vales how much more gas does it suck down with using them instead of the stock 2V vales? with the 4Vs what kind of grade gas would it burn?

Thanks
Curtis
77_F150_4x4 aka
"The BeAsT"

 

435 hp and you're worried about gas mileage??? ;-)

 

Good point but still i dont want to put my foot in it and see my gas go down faster than im going. But it cant get much worse that its normal 8-9.


Thanks
Curtis
77_F150_4x4 aka
"The BeAsT"

 

Well increasing the size of the valves gives you added flow which means theoretically that you can get more F/A mixture into the cylinder to be compressed, ignited and make more power. Of course all kinds of things like cam/valve timing, flow velocity, turbulence, etc. have to come into play but I think it's safe to say you would see a significant increase in power.

Anyone who knows anything about hi-po engines will tell you that the most important factor in fuel economy hinges on one thing...your ankle. The more you bend it down while it's on top of the long skinny pedal the faster your gas gauge drops.

 

Hey there :
Well When I put my 650+ Hp. 400 together mileage wasn't even thought of. I run 114 octane B33 Phillips 66 Racing fuel and use about 1 1/4 Gal. to make a 300 Ft. Pull. And at $9.00 a gal it's all in having Fun ;-)

ShaZam

 

You can get Roller Rockers from Ford Motorsport that DO NOT require pedestal machining! Part # FOR-M-6564-351C
Does not require guide plate or hardened pushrods. They are a full roller with 1.73:1 ratio and are a DIRECT bolt-on. They will also work on '73-up 429/460. You ca also get them from PAW for $298.95

Stryder


I'd rather be walking through a hot desert carrying a Ford hubcap than driving a POS Chevy

 

hey Bill, i've got a related question for this forum. now i might be wrong but you seem to be the man who knows quite a bit of knowledge on these motors. can't you make the 4v 4bbl. cleveland heads work for this guys 435 h.p. build up? if they can work for that much power these big chamber heads might work better, instead of spending alot of cash at the maching shop with stock 400 castings, or is the intake another problem.. just a question seems like they would work. what do you think?

 

You can use 4V heads and intake on a 400. There's a pair of adapters made for this application he'd need to bridge the gap between the narrow manifold and wider spaced heads.

 

Sure you could use the 4V heads. The longer stroke and bigger displacement of the 400 certainly lessens the issues involved with the large intake runners. The exhaust ports are still pretty marginal but the motor would definitely breathe better. The adapters that are being mentioned are for putting a Cleveland intake manifold on an M block and are specifically made for 2V C heads not 4V. That's not to say that they can't be ported to match the 4V heads but they don't come stock that way.

 

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-Jun-01 AT 03:59 PM (EST)[/font][p]If you read my post on reving a 400 past 5200 in this forum you'll see what I used. This is one stout combo from idle on up and it's still quite steetable. The piston are key. Mine are custom made J.E. dished and come very close to the top of the cylinder. This helps resist detonation. They made 175# of static compression which scared the ***** out of me but I run 91 octane with no problem at all. It's goona cost you if you do everything right though.

I had geometry problems with the crane springs and push rods. Most of this stuff is intended for the 4v Cleveland.

Polish the rods and use ARP bolts and you should have no trouble with the bottom end to 6 grand.

Good Luck!

1977 Ford F-100
400m/c6
280,000 miles
Stock on the outside
modified/rebuilt everything