Front suspension and why
Elder User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 553
Likes: 2
From: MN - NW of Twin Cities
Originally Posted by merc546
AXracer
Your in the ballpark but the Must 11/Pinto ended in 1978 and the Fox bodied mustang era begain in 1979 which indicates the 1979 Must thru today is not called a Mustang 11 and it doesn't have a Short Long Arm suspension like the Must 11 (not sure about the 2005 till today retired in 2001).
If you ever watched a police officer chase a bad guy (or just having stupid fun) there is no question that they will crack lower arms and many other suspension parts.
So in conclusion maybe you should really check your so called accepted facts.
Now for my part this discussion is over. If you want to continue your on your own.
P.S. I have a Volare susp in this 56 and it's great except for a little more slop in the steering then I like, may change it to R/P.
Chuck
Your in the ballpark but the Must 11/Pinto ended in 1978 and the Fox bodied mustang era begain in 1979 which indicates the 1979 Must thru today is not called a Mustang 11 and it doesn't have a Short Long Arm suspension like the Must 11 (not sure about the 2005 till today retired in 2001).
If you ever watched a police officer chase a bad guy (or just having stupid fun) there is no question that they will crack lower arms and many other suspension parts.
So in conclusion maybe you should really check your so called accepted facts.
Now for my part this discussion is over. If you want to continue your on your own.
P.S. I have a Volare susp in this 56 and it's great except for a little more slop in the steering then I like, may change it to R/P.
Chuck
I bought a brand new 1979 Mustang V8 Cobra and it wasn't considered a MII. And if my memory serves me right it had a strut front suspension unlike the MII coil suspension. Two different animals.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
From: Bloomfield, Iowa
MII was strictly 1974-78, no cop cars.
Fox platform was started in 1979. There was a cop Fox Mustang.
These cars have nothing in common.
I have a MII under my '57 and really like it so far. Still sorting it out but it drives good and sits right. I did go to 11" brakes and GM calipers. I also kept the strut rods since that is how these were designed.
You might find problems with the cross member cracking around the frame or the lower a-frames cracking if you go to the one piece lower. They aren't designed to put all the stress through the crossmember. That's what the strut rod is for.
MII works fine for me. Looking into the Crown Vic for my '61 Uni.
SPark
Fox platform was started in 1979. There was a cop Fox Mustang.
These cars have nothing in common.
I have a MII under my '57 and really like it so far. Still sorting it out but it drives good and sits right. I did go to 11" brakes and GM calipers. I also kept the strut rods since that is how these were designed.
You might find problems with the cross member cracking around the frame or the lower a-frames cracking if you go to the one piece lower. They aren't designed to put all the stress through the crossmember. That's what the strut rod is for.
MII works fine for me. Looking into the Crown Vic for my '61 Uni.
SPark
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,068
Likes: 7
From: Moyie, BC Canada
Merc546,
Not trying to diss you, but your assertions don't match the accepted facts.
Quoting from Wikipedia's history of the Mustang:
2nd generation (1974-78)
"Lee Iacocca ordered the development of a smaller Mustang for 1974 introduction with initial plans calling for the downsized Mustang to be based on the compact Ford Maverick, which was similar in size and power to the Falcon upon which the original Mustang had been based. Those plans were later scrapped in favor of an even smaller Mustang based on the subcompact Ford Pinto."
Third generation (1979-93)
"For 1979, the all new Mustang was based on the larger Fox platform."
4th generation (1994-2004)
1994, the Mustang underwent its first major redesign in 15 years. The design was based on an updated version of the rear-wheel drive Fox platform known as "Fox-4".
There indeed was a police interceptor Mustang in the early 80's. I moved to NC in 1979 and getting the Mustangs made the state troopers here think they could run down even the Duke boys. The lack of dependability and small size soon had the state replacing the Mustangs with Chevy sedans. There are still a few of the hand me downs being used by some of the rural sheriffs.
Here again from Wiki:
The Ford Mustang SSP was a lightweight police car package based on the Ford Mustang produced between 1982-1993. The car was meant to provide a speedier option for police departments in lieu of other full sized (and heavy) sedans on the market at the time. The SSP abbreviates the designation Special Service Package, a special Foxbody Mustang trim made exclusively for law enforcement use.
Yes we will never agree on the suitability of the OEM MII suspension parts for use under 4000# nose heavy pickups, but I don't know very many knowlegable builders that would agree with your opinion, otherwise they would still be offered by the major aftermarket manufacturers. Sorry.
Not trying to diss you, but your assertions don't match the accepted facts.
Quoting from Wikipedia's history of the Mustang:
2nd generation (1974-78)
"Lee Iacocca ordered the development of a smaller Mustang for 1974 introduction with initial plans calling for the downsized Mustang to be based on the compact Ford Maverick, which was similar in size and power to the Falcon upon which the original Mustang had been based. Those plans were later scrapped in favor of an even smaller Mustang based on the subcompact Ford Pinto."
Third generation (1979-93)
"For 1979, the all new Mustang was based on the larger Fox platform."
4th generation (1994-2004)
1994, the Mustang underwent its first major redesign in 15 years. The design was based on an updated version of the rear-wheel drive Fox platform known as "Fox-4".
There indeed was a police interceptor Mustang in the early 80's. I moved to NC in 1979 and getting the Mustangs made the state troopers here think they could run down even the Duke boys. The lack of dependability and small size soon had the state replacing the Mustangs with Chevy sedans. There are still a few of the hand me downs being used by some of the rural sheriffs.
Here again from Wiki:
The Ford Mustang SSP was a lightweight police car package based on the Ford Mustang produced between 1982-1993. The car was meant to provide a speedier option for police departments in lieu of other full sized (and heavy) sedans on the market at the time. The SSP abbreviates the designation Special Service Package, a special Foxbody Mustang trim made exclusively for law enforcement use.
Yes we will never agree on the suitability of the OEM MII suspension parts for use under 4000# nose heavy pickups, but I don't know very many knowlegable builders that would agree with your opinion, otherwise they would still be offered by the major aftermarket manufacturers. Sorry.
Elder User
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 728
Likes: 2
From: North Idaho
I put a 04 crown vic IFS in my 55 for several reasons, those being, I wanted a smooth ride, I wanted power rack and pinion, I wanted disk brakes, I didn'y have (and still don't) have a huge pile of extra cash to buy something new, and I wanted to lower the stance of my truck about 5 inches or so.
I admit that my first choice was the Lexus 400 front clip but I could not find one within 800 miles but old police cruisers abound around here, so I picked up a P71 unit, complete from hub to hub for $125.00
It's and inch wider per side than the original straight axel but I will deal with that with my rim choice.
Before you make any decision as to which front end to use, decide on what YOU want, your building this truck to suit your wants and needs.
Look at my 55 build thread if your interested in the cv system, I think I showed it in fairly decent detail.
good luck, Gary
I admit that my first choice was the Lexus 400 front clip but I could not find one within 800 miles but old police cruisers abound around here, so I picked up a P71 unit, complete from hub to hub for $125.00
It's and inch wider per side than the original straight axel but I will deal with that with my rim choice.
Before you make any decision as to which front end to use, decide on what YOU want, your building this truck to suit your wants and needs.
Look at my 55 build thread if your interested in the cv system, I think I showed it in fairly decent detail.
good luck, Gary
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 150
Likes: 2
From: Kansas City, MO
I too have been considering the options for the front suspension on my 55 F100. I purchased my truck last summer and have been reading these forums since July but have not posted anything until now. As of right now I plan on keeping the stock front axle. I hope sometime in the not so distant future to install lowering springs front and back as well as sway bars. While I see a lot of pros in going to an IFS it is beyond my welding and fabrication skill at this time and also beyond my budget. Considering costs, the way I plan on driving my truck and my skills I have pretty much decided that is the route I will take...of course I could change my mind before I get to that point 
Until then I will be driving her just the way she is and enjoying every minute of it.
PS. I plan on posting a more in depth introduction, including pictures and some of my plans for the truck before long. I have learned so much just reading the posts and appreciate the wealth of information this forum offers.
Alan
Until then I will be driving her just the way she is and enjoying every minute of it.PS. I plan on posting a more in depth introduction, including pictures and some of my plans for the truck before long. I have learned so much just reading the posts and appreciate the wealth of information this forum offers.
Alan
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
Another oldie but goody pops back up from the grave!
Alan, the beam axle with the lowering springs (go for the down and forward springs Mid Fifty sells to also move the front wheels to better center in the fender openings), new kingpin bushings, correct alignment (likely to need 1-2 alignment wedges on each side to get correct caster), and radial tires (assuming the steering box does not have excessive wear) rides and handles quite well. Sway bars with parallel leaf springs have minimal effect IMHO since the springs act like a sway bar. If your steering box is worn or you just want power steering to compliment the upfitted axle, give serious consideration to the Toyota power steering box swap, then your truck will ride and steer at least as well as any brand new truck!
Alan, the beam axle with the lowering springs (go for the down and forward springs Mid Fifty sells to also move the front wheels to better center in the fender openings), new kingpin bushings, correct alignment (likely to need 1-2 alignment wedges on each side to get correct caster), and radial tires (assuming the steering box does not have excessive wear) rides and handles quite well. Sway bars with parallel leaf springs have minimal effect IMHO since the springs act like a sway bar. If your steering box is worn or you just want power steering to compliment the upfitted axle, give serious consideration to the Toyota power steering box swap, then your truck will ride and steer at least as well as any brand new truck!
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 150
Likes: 2
From: Kansas City, MO
Thanks for the tips Axracer. The lowering springs you mention from Mid50's are the ones on my wish list and what I was thinking of going with. Also in the plans is the Toyota power steering setup. I suppose when I do that I should also think about replacing the kingpins although the truck drives pretty good right now and when it was inspected the mechanic said the old kings pins did not have excessive amount of play (at that time)....of course by the time I get the extra $ and time for the suspension upgrades I hope to have some more miles on her.
Thanks for the info on the sway bars. I was not sure how much they would help and if they do not make a big difference that might be money better spent on something else...after all my wish list for the truck far is a lot longer than my wallet can afford.
Alan
Thanks for the info on the sway bars. I was not sure how much they would help and if they do not make a big difference that might be money better spent on something else...after all my wish list for the truck far is a lot longer than my wallet can afford.
Alan
Junior User
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Nanaimo British Columbia
Stock straight axle
Hello everyone, great discussion even going back 5 years.
I went with the stock straight axle with new king pins, HD tie rod, original springs redone at spring shop with 2 inches of lift removed, front and back. Lengthened all shock mounts and bought top end gas shocks, as well as sway bars front and back.
Toyota power steering box with Mid-Fifty mounting kit, and under floor power brake booster with disc front and drums on back.
All of this was to keep the original frame, straight axle and suspension as close to original as possible but improve the overall ride. THe total combination I have rides fantastic and handles just about as well as my 2008 Avalanche. Didn't want to cut frame and weld in new front end in case someday I wanted to restore everything to stock or maybe someone else could if they owned it after me.
Drive it every day since I got it on the road a few weeks ago and loving it, wouldn't change anything other than getting it done years sooner. Almost have motor broken in and ready for first long distance road trip as a shake down for future longer trips around B.C. and down to California and parts unknown.
Kevin
I went with the stock straight axle with new king pins, HD tie rod, original springs redone at spring shop with 2 inches of lift removed, front and back. Lengthened all shock mounts and bought top end gas shocks, as well as sway bars front and back.
Toyota power steering box with Mid-Fifty mounting kit, and under floor power brake booster with disc front and drums on back.
All of this was to keep the original frame, straight axle and suspension as close to original as possible but improve the overall ride. THe total combination I have rides fantastic and handles just about as well as my 2008 Avalanche. Didn't want to cut frame and weld in new front end in case someday I wanted to restore everything to stock or maybe someone else could if they owned it after me.
Drive it every day since I got it on the road a few weeks ago and loving it, wouldn't change anything other than getting it done years sooner. Almost have motor broken in and ready for first long distance road trip as a shake down for future longer trips around B.C. and down to California and parts unknown.
Kevin
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
Thanks for the tips Axracer. The lowering springs you mention from Mid50's are the ones on my wish list and what I was thinking of going with. Also in the plans is the Toyota power steering setup. I suppose when I do that I should also think about replacing the kingpins although the truck drives pretty good right now and when it was inspected the mechanic said the old kings pins did not have excessive amount of play (at that time)....of course by the time I get the extra $ and time for the suspension upgrades I hope to have some more miles on her.
Thanks for the info on the sway bars. I was not sure how much they would help and if they do not make a big difference that might be money better spent on something else...after all my wish list for the truck far is a lot longer than my wallet can afford.
Alan
Thanks for the info on the sway bars. I was not sure how much they would help and if they do not make a big difference that might be money better spent on something else...after all my wish list for the truck far is a lot longer than my wallet can afford.
Alan
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 150
Likes: 2
From: Kansas City, MO
Great Tip
Wow!
Thanks Axracer. That is great information for a newbie like me to have. I have a lot to learn about maintaining and working on this old truck and tips like this are what is so great about these forums. I have saved this to my build folder that I am keeping so when I do the suspension I will have the information available.
Alan
Thanks Axracer. That is great information for a newbie like me to have. I have a lot to learn about maintaining and working on this old truck and tips like this are what is so great about these forums. I have saved this to my build folder that I am keeping so when I do the suspension I will have the information available.
Alan
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
I have posted many similar posts on a lot of topics in my 11,000+ posts, including setting the front axle alignment, plenty on suspensions, body work, a 9 part tutorial on mig welding, and others that even I may not remember. You can do an advanced search here by going to the blue band right below the red and blue FTE logo at the top of the page and clicking on the search v button. Select advanced search from the drop down menu. You can put in a topic and/or keyword, my user name, and this forum in where to search to see all my posts on that topic.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,352
Likes: 1
From: Waleska, GA
edit..ok, I just figured out I got in on a discussion that's several years old(shrug).
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