i've never heard anything but good things about MC filters....ever.

 

I think the last part was about PennZoil oil.

When I first started in the automotive business in 1977 or so, there had (supposedly) recently been an uproar about Quaker State and PennZoil oils. The accusations were "substandard product" and "terrible sludge" in engines, etc. There were rumors of payoffs and folks cheating the testing system. I never saw proof of this, but took it as gospel from the old heads that I worked with. Oohh, there were lawsuits and Government investigations, fines, etc...
To this day, I've never seen any documented proof of these "legends". I've searched!

If there is ANY truth to these "legends", it had to have come before the days of the SAE and API certs. brought about in the early 50's (IIRC). Any garbage oil would not meet specs. for a motor oil since then, and couldn't be sold as such.
But, even now, it's nice to have a product to dump on. Anecdotal evidence abounds.

Speaking of "S**t oil, does anyone remember Arco Graphite oil? That was sure a good idea gone bad!
The SAE approved it, sort of, and API gave it a rating, sort of. It was a very good oil with graphite added. (I'm sure there was much more chemistry involved) Neither knew what to make of the graphite component, it seems.
I'm told: "If used from day one, Arco Graphite was a fine oil, but when used on engines with "some mileage" on them, the graphite would cling to existing deposits and plug up the oiling system".
How much of that is truth, and how much is legend? Does anybody really know?
Here's my anecdotal experience:
I remember our 74 F-250CS/360 with about 60K miles. My Father, always on the lookout for a "deal", bought 6 cases of Arco Graphite Oil at a Flea Market for cheap, just after production was discontinued. The engine was toast 10K miles later. Every internal surface had a grey/silver coating on it. There were two distinct rod knocks, the lifters were full of "goop" and the cam was badly worn.

Arco Graphite hasn't been made in many years. It was on the market for less than 1 year, IIRC. PennZoil and Quaker State are STILL producing SAE approved and API rated oils.
You decide.

 

I bought a new Ford pickup with a 300 inch six and 4-speed O/D stick in 1978. I ran Arco Graphite for 2-3 oil change cycles (probably about 20k miles on the truck at that point), and remember just being bothered about the inky black color. Changed back to my standby Valvoline and never had any engine problems while I had the truck (sold it at about 90k because I needed a van instead of a pickup).

Gives me the creeps to think about that stuff now, imagining how much oil had to go by the bypass valves in my filters when they clogged....

I do remember one road trip where I folded my mirrors, drafted semis, put the tailgate down, etc, with the Graphite oil and got a bonafide 25 mpg, though. Typically got about 22 on the road with that old truck--which in those days was great.

 

"and remember just being bothered about the inky black color".

ooohh, that stuff just "looked" nasty right out of the bottle, didn't it.

In the 360 I mentioned, it added a thick layer of dark grey "slime" to every internal surface. I really don't know if that was a good thing or a bad thing. The dark grey "gunk" that I dug out of a few lifters says it wasn't good for a 60K motor.
The fuel milege did seem to go up a bit before it started running bad, though.

 

i wouldn't use pennzoil to oil my door hinges! quaker state oil is just as bad! big build up in the crankcase! or oil pan! and on top of the lifter valley! don't use that oil.
thermal break down is a big thing with this product!

 

I'm just wondering, have you actually seen this for yourself or just heard of people who had this issue?

 

I used ARCO Graphite in a 1971 Chevy straight six. No problems, no mileage gain. I think it died in the marketplace because people dont want new oil to look black.

Jim

 

Yes, I was referring to pennzoil.

 

hi,
i'm not poking fun or trying **** anyone off. but i've been a mechanic for many, many years. but i have seen what that stuff does to an engine.
i ran a small shop for a while. this guy called me to come look at his 1982 chrysler 5th ave. he said it just stopped running! it was a 318 by the by, anyway he thought the fuel pump went, it still wouldn't run! he spent probably another $500 bucks worth of parts at it, still no start and run. then i go over to take a look. i had no idea what i was in for. i tested everything still no start or run. so i mix a batch of oil and gas mix and squirted it into the carb and it fire off and ran! the customer asks what does this mean? i told him the engines plugged up with something and it can't breathe! thats why it won't run on its own. so i asked what type of oil do you use? he told me quaker state since the car was new! every oil change, religishly, every 3000 miles. anyway
i pulled the valve cover off and sure enough all kinds of build up! that gunk was so bad,the impression of the valve cover was in it. the intake was the same way. the oil pan i had to pry it off! the customer was a mazed at what he saw. his exact words were that oil did this and i said yes! all in all i've seen fords and chevys the same way all plugged up!i filled a 5 gallon bucket up with the stuff!
and thats why i don't use that oil!

ford ranger

 

[QUOTE=FORD RANGER]hi,
i'm not poking fun or trying **** anyone off. but i've been a mechanic for many, many years. but i have seen what that stuff does to an engine.
i ran a small shop for a while. this guy called me to come look at his 1982 chrysler 5th ave. he said it just stopped running! it was a 318 by the by, anyway he thought the fuel pump went, it still wouldn't run! he spent probably another $500 bucks worth of parts at it, still no start and run. then i go over to take a look. i had no idea what i was in for. i tested everything still no start or run. so i mix a batch of oil and gas mix and squirted it into the carb and it fire off and ran! the customer asks what does this mean? i told him the engines plugged up with something and it can't breathe! thats why it won't run on its own. so i asked what type of oil do you use? he told me quaker state since the car was new! every oil change, religishly, every 3000 miles. anyway
i pulled the valve cover off and sure enough all kinds of build up! that gunk was so bad,the impression of the valve cover was in it. the intake was the same way. the oil pan i had to pry it off! the customer was a mazed at what he saw. his exact words were that oil did this and i said yes! all in all i've seen fords and chevys the same way all plugged up!i filled a 5 gallon bucket up with the stuff!
and thats why i don't use that oil!

---------------------------------------------------------
A very INTERESTING experience there, with Quaker State. I started a thread a while back concerning Quaker state oil, in which I said not to use it due to the fact I felt it had a very weak detergent package.

Of course a few people reamed me, as if that was impossible -- not Quaker state! Then, months later -- here is your post on a gummed up, deposit laden oil -- and what brand of oil do you mention??

QUAKER STATE!!

Who knew? Looks like I was telling the truth after all!!

Ed

 

yeah if you use this product add a quart of tranny fluid to it! its a friction modifier!
ed,
i still wouldn't use it to oil door hinges with! that just my opinion i could be wrong!
and that same 82' 318 i have to today, its in my 68 coronet stock car i've owned for almost20 years! i clean it up and rebuilt twice! i just couldn't beileve what i and costumer saw! you had to been there! the look on the guys face! i showed him what pennzoil or quaker state does to an engine! he said wow!

ford ranger

 

...and you would think if Quaker State or Pennzoil really caused engine sludge that often, it would be pretty obvious from an Internet search. It is not.

There are some engines like the Chrysler 2.7, and some Toyotas, which DO have chronic sludge issues, and reading the bboards about these known problem engines, seems like everyone does oil changes "religishly" (sic) at 3000 miles. I'll bet you that most of these folks are simply lying.

Modern SM rated oils, any brand, with reasonable change intervals, are not going to cause engine sludging like you describe unless there are other problems like a leaking head gasket, or regular driving with half-mile trips. To meet the SM specs, a certain level of detergent is required.

Do a Google search on QS+sludge, or Pennzoil+sludge, and you will simply not turn up a lot of horror stories. Do a search on Chrysler+2.7+sludge, and you'll get a ton of hits.

I don't use QS or Pennzoil, but sometimes my BS meter goes off during a "testimonial" post like this. I'll bet you a buck that that old guy changed his oil every 30k miles, not every 3k, just like most of the folks with sludged Toyota engines who "changed the oil every 3k miles but lost all the receipts"... Your story might mean more if YOU were the one who bought a car new, changed oil every 3k, and got sludge, as opposed to having an old guy with a messed up car tell you how he maintained it--just like he lied to his wife about his drinking or something. 8-)

 

I must be missing something here. The engine wouldn't run on gasoline, but it started and ran on a lawnmower mix????????

The worst case scenario I ever had was in the early 60s with a 1959 Buick. The car had 110k miles. The owner had never changed the oil, just added what ever was handy when it was low. Black tar sludge everywhere inside the engine, but it still started and ran.

Oil was different, engines were different, driving habits were different during those days. Today, we think nothing for jumping the the car and driving 5 - 6 hundred miles or more in a day. Back in the 50's anything over a hundred miles was a major outing for many. Short trips were the norm. They did oil changes when they thought about it, and it wasn't a priority, plus spending a lot of money for oil wasn't in the budget. Motor oil is motor oil was the thinking. A lot of the time, what went into the car was what the service station had a lot of that wasn't selling well even if the customer specified a specific brand/weight.

Of the engines we worked on in those days, the cleanest engines used major brand oils, of which QS, Penns, were in that group, and the oil was changed regularly.Also, oil came from US production. Pennsylvania crudes were considered the best, mid continents were 2nd, and coastals were of lower grades. It was all good oil, but some was better.

Oil came in single weights. Mostly the can just said "motor oil." Then came detergents, then came heavy duty (HD), and progressed from there.

Oil filters were an accessory, added at extra charge. They did not come on the engine from the factory. Many did not see a need for them.

So, one cannot judge from then to now. Everything is entirely different, but old wives tales, and fables abound. jd

 

I'm going to go with Ed and Ranger on this one. I realize that there are some engines that seem overly prone to sludge. But when I worked in an engine shop a few (8? ) years ago, we saw lots of sludged up engines. They came for the most part from two service stations in our town. The owners could prove regular oil changes, and these two staions always used P/QS. The engines we recieved for rebuilding from those two stations, reguardless of make and model, were sludge filled about two out of three times. The engines brought to us from other stations that didn't use P/QS didn't have the same problems, ever. My guess is that a weak detergent package, commbined with the short trips that some drivers do, causes the sludge in some cases. If you drive on longer trips, maybe the thorough heating of the engine will protect you somewhat. But I won't use P/QS in any of my stuff. The shop I was with used, and still uses, valvoline. If you ask, thats what the owner will recommend. If you have a flat tappet cam, you get a quart of some special stuff for break in, and some customers use synthetics after couple of changes. They have been at it for 25 yrs and have developed a good reputation. 3 or 4 other machine shops in town have failed. If some thing is wrong with the temperature control or the PCV, it can happen to anything, but the P/QS certainly seemed FAR more prone to problems. If you're oiling your own engine, it is your engine, your money, and your choice. I chose Mobil 1 15-50 for mine. DinosaurFan, on work's old 'puter

 

If you're getting those results, how bad can it be? IMHO, any modern name brand oil is going to give good results for the way most people drive with 3K to 5K OCI. Oil is just a lot better than it used to be. My $.02.