I was siting around today, talking to several of my truck buddies. We got talking about this 400 that I want to rebuild.{unfortunitly, these are all 390 and chevy fans}
Any how most of them, all say that the 400 is hard to keep the bottom end in, plus tell me this this totaly sucks as far gas milaege goes. But from what i have read, this can be a kick *** engine. Could any one tell me if this is true, also give me some defence to use.

Thanks

 

Ask your friends if they can build a 390 or Chevy motor that makes 380HP and costs $2000.
http://home.earthlink.net/~tcrocker/400.html

If that's not enough, tell them about ShaZam's 800HP, 400 Ford smog motor.

The stock bottom end is strong enough for 500HP with a good oiling system. Where did they get this crap?

 

Defense points? Ok. It's got the longest stroke of any Ford V8, has larger bearings and longer rods than a Chevy big-block and accepts the 351C-4V heads which are the design basis for both Ford and Chevy's present NASCAR efforts. (Of course, it can be argued that Ford's Cleveland head is a copy of the Chevy big-block's.) Sure, it has the Cleveland oiling problem; but that's easily fixed and the main webbing is solid enough for 4-bolt caps to be installed (custom made ones, unfortunately). The fact that it's heavy for it's displacement is its really single bad point.

 

"the longest stroke of any Ford V8"
That was true until the 5.4 modular. 4.17" stroke, the same as the 6.8 V10.

"Ford's Cleveland head is a copy of the Chevy big-block's."
Let's say it was influenced by Chevy. I'd hate to think they copied anything Chevy.

"4-bolt caps to be installed (custom made ones, unfortunately)."
I really don't think it's needed for 98% of the street applications. Some ARP studs couldn't hurt.

"The fact that it's heavy for it's displacement is its really single bad point."
At 575 lb. it about the same as a BB Chevy, and 45 lb. lighter than the 390.
The FE started out as a 332 and was 620 lb. That's a heavy motor for it's displacement.

 

what do I need to do to over come this oil issue? Will a high volume oil pump take car of it? I was reading one web sight that said to run a line from the front of the egine{ one of the oil ports} to the back oil port on top of the block. Will this help?

Thanks

 

The 400 doesn't really have a big oiling problem unless you are going to spin it up to 6,000 or so. The mains may wear out before the rings but my machine shop doesn't even recommend a high volume oil pump any more for them. Just a real good stock pressure/volume. They build a lot of race engines including 351C.

Rods are way stronger than a chevy small block. You can build it to any HP you want. Just keep in mind that horsepower cost money. How fast do you want to go?

Bear Tracks

 

Regarding fuel economy: I've tried all the available manifolds on the 400 in my '78 Bronco, and found by far the best to be the old Holley "Street Dominator".
I know it's a single plane manifold, but it's vastly superior to the Edelbrock in both power AND mileage.
I get 14.5 - 15.0 mpg highway at 65 mph with my C6-equipped truck with 3.0:1 axles. Holley 4V of course; '78 351M cam; '79 dstributor at 10 degrees initial advance,"sound of fuel economy" ping.

Best the Edelbrock ever did was 13.0 mpg, downhill with a tailwind.
And it was 2 seconds slower 0 - 60.

 

GT40, 500/500 might be pushing it for streetability. I don't know what your specs are but I'm running some serious cam/compression etc and Desk Top Dyno only put me at 425hp and 510torque. If I ran anymore cam I'd have to get a much looser converter. My torque curve however is flatter than road kill.

By the way, I missed something. When exactly did we live on the moon????????????


Bear tracks

 

i got an estimate on my build, it looks like its a standard build. that is to say, no wacky mill work. so my cost is @ $2500. and for all that, looks like 500/500 hp/#tq. this will work in a daily driver.

 

another thing to remember, so far all i have heard is that i can not do this build. a 400 will never make any power. a few people will say you can do it. most people i have found just do not think this engine is worth building, cause most people just swap, or give in to conventional wisdom. if conventional wisdom is so smart, then how come we still dont live on the moon.

 

For whatever it's worth: PURE AND SIMPLE, THE PERFORMANCE OF YOUR ENGINE IS DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL TO THE THICKNESS OF YOUR WALLET. Those Chevy guys can say whatever the hell they want because you can build a strong chevy engine, even if you are white trash. (That's funny, strong chevy engine, we all know there's no such thing). And the FE was a freaking flop. Now which engine replaced which in trucks? The modified block replaced the FE so tell him to zip it. And you ask any muscle car guy - if you were talking to a Chevy guy and you mentioned the word cleveland, he downright would ##### his pants. The cleveland was designed to kill chevy muscle cars. The valves were 2.04/1.66, ford's superior counterpart to the 2.02 camelbacks. Cleveland heads are some of the highest flowing ever designed. They out flow the hi-po GT-40 302 heads and the only way SBC heads can out flow them is with lots of work. But if you want my opinion, let em talk. If they need to reassure themselves by talking down other motors, that's there problem. I know for sure that there is nothing else I would want under my hood then my 400. If ford wouldn't have choked the living ##### out of them then your friends would be whistling a different tune. There aren't many motors out there that WON'T beat a smog 400 but there aren't many motors out there that WILL beat a massaged one. And where did they come up with that low end crap? The Cleveland block has one of the beefiest low ends I have ever seen. But let em talk the cleveland down. Build yourself a 400 and get western with em at the stoplights. They'll shut up REAL fast.

 

The moon crack is we should be on the moon, we have the ability, and the technology, we just dont have the drive.

Here is a anti 351c/m/400 myth. I just bought a 1970 Cougar for my son. Now some of you will say cool, but its really not. Why? Because the former owner "heard that Cleveland engines weigh about 700 pounds", so he pulled it (351c 2v) and took it straight to the scrap yard. Now it has a 302. When I am done, it will be possed by a 400, built the Cleveland way.

As for me and my build, I am only doing it because someone said I cant.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 25-Jun-02 AT 11:40 AM (EST)] There's plenty of potential in the 400. It just requires a little more thought and money. That's because small block chevy's have been built to death by everyone and their brother. There's nothing wrong with the Chevy, but the 400 is a better truck engine.
If I had a light weight car to put it in you could build one heck of a 400 by upping the compression and cam seriously. My truck on the other hand has to be streetable, able to take the camper and boat to the lake with the AC on (at 85mph and 95 degrees), make a quick trip of 1,000 miles and still go to the race track and turn 14 second time at a mile above sea level.

Bear Tracks

 

>another thing to remember, so far all i have heard is that i
>can not do this build. a 400 will never make any power. a
>few people will say you can do it. most people i have found
>just do not think this engine is worth building, cause most
>people just swap, or give in to conventional wisdom.

You know when I built my first 400 I never thought of it as a bad motor to build. It was the motor that was in my truck and I wanted it to have a little snot at the pulls. 425 H.p. out of a stock looking 400 with a stock looking 2 Barrel carb. Was nice but I knew there was more ponies in there just waiting to be found. And I think I found most of them. But I was doing a little research the other day with one of my 400's on the engine stand.I have got over a 1/2" of clearance between my rods and the block on my 4.200 stroke motor, So that's got me thinking I can Stroke it a whole bunch more before I have to start grinding on the block or cylinder walls to let it turn with out hitting. Hell have you seen what they have to remove on a 351W to get a 426 Cid out of it.And I heard they have kits to make them 454's now.

Well a 4.500 stroked 4.060 bore will give me 466 CID
And a 4.700 stroked 4.060 Bore will give me 487 CID
After that I'd have to start grinding on the block. Boy Sure wish the cylinder walls where a little thicker on them.

What it all boils down to is if you do your homework and plan ahead you can make these 400's Scream.
Like I said before I look at a 400 as a Stroked out 351 Cleveland , If you get rid of all the smog stuff and let them breath they put out lots of hoursepower just like the 351C did back in it's day Some 32 years Ago.

 

Well, I dicided to give it a shot. I just brought the block over to the machine shop. After looking at it, the guy told me he would have to bore it out at least .040 over. so know its time to start parts hunting. My truck runs ok right know, {for a 302} so I am in no hurry. I will be using the stock heads on it. These are what I believe are 2v heads. And I was planing to go back with just stock pistons. {new of course} But I don't have a clue as to what to use for a cam or intake. I heard a few mentioned, but would love some recomendations. All I want out of this bear { for now} is a great runing road and work truck. How good are the stock distributers that are on these engines. should I upgrade that also. Plus I do not have a carb. for this yet. Any suggestions.