i have done a little research on stroking the 400. okay first the 240 rods would work. stroke the crank to 4.18, bore block .030 over add 240 rods and a set of pistons. throw in a little machining and elbow grease and you get a kickin' motor. even with all the machining problems still pop up. first the piston height of moore's motor was 1.438 and left .015 out of the hole. the compression was 10.2:1. a little high for street use. i found a piston with a compression height of 1.425. it's forged and made by srp. it goes for about $500. not cheap but still cheaper than a custom set.

enough of rambling i get to the point. i found another set up for a stroker. it isn't cheap but i never said it was.

stir in a 400 crank stroked to 4.18 inches. add a set 7.1 inch rod made by lunati for a big block chevy (2.2 rod journal) this is a sportsman 4340 h beam rod. retails for $662.99. add a set of 302-347 pistons with 1.1 compression height. made by srp. also forged. retails for about $500 bucks. assuming a deck height of 10.287 (block decked .010) this would leave .003 out of the hole. compression is open to whatever you want. just another one of my twisted ideas.

later................

 

It sounds like you need my pistons. Has anyone found out how far a 400 can be overbored?

Check with KB for a price on their 372W/C stroker pistons. The comp. height is 1.44" and the valve reliefs are for 351C heads.

What compression do you want?

I don't think you can get 4.17" stroke when you use a 2.2" rod journal. There's not enough material to off set grind the crank.

Does lunati have other rod lengths over 6.8"
A 1.1" piston height is a little short for a street engine. The rings are narrow and stacked close together. My oil ring goes through the pin hole.

A slightly shorter stroke like 4.15" would reduce machine work needed for the pistons. I come up with 4.11" max for the 2.2" journal.

pistons .030 = 419cid
" .040 = 421
" .060 = 425
with 4.11" stroke

 

generally speaking, the over bore is .030-.060, sonic testing is usually a must. Mr. Moore's stroker is .080, and i have heard of some poeple going to .090, all of this is block dependant.

The general rule of thumb is no more than .060.

 

i was looking to stay around 9.5:1. i just brought up about the lunati rods for some food for thought. i wanted to put aluminum heads on it and i did find them (see aluminum heads post). i tried to put this idea on another site but basically got my idea shot down. anyhow it was just an idea. i build it when i get time.

later................

 

you got your idea shot down? dont let that stop you, I have been told no one makes performance parts for a 400, so I am using "stock" and replacement parts for my build. I have gotten power est from 450-625 from by build. Of you want to do it, and can afford it, do it. whats the worst that can happen, it works?

 

If someone tells you it can't be done, then it's your fault for listening. Work the problems out on this board. At least we are open minded.

I found a couple parts of interest in the last few days. A set of Pro line 7.1" BB Chevy rods for $399 at http://www.flatlanderracing.com.
And an new economical 4.17" iron crank for a 351W for $264 from Speed-o-motive. I'm think there could be a way to make it fit a 400.

Aluminum heads are great if you can fit it into the budget. New ones are popping up all the time like PIM 3V and Blue Thunder. A head that is recommended for "racing only" on a 5.0, may be just about right for a mild 426 stroker. Some guys have $1000-1500 invested in their iron heads and regret not knowing about some of the aluminum heads available.

If you were wondering what car will get my 4.5" stroked 400 motor, it's an Australian XB Falcon, complete with a functional Weiand 6-71 and all the Mad Max movie add ons. I felt it was best to keep an engine from the 335 series. I just need to figure out how to keep the main caps from blowing out the pan.

 

>If someone tells you it can't be done, then it's your fault
>for listening. Work the problems out on this board. At least
>we are open minded.
>

>And an new economical 4.17" iron crank for a 351W for $264
>from Speed-o-motive. I'm think there could be a way to make
>it fit a 400.

OK I'm not saying you can't make it work .. But .. the crank from a 351W is about a 1/2" to short on the snout end of the crank and it's missing the build-up that the timing gears rides on.
other then that all the mains will match up but the counter weights are smaller then the 400 Crank.

Now if your have some time before your build you could order a nice drop forged crank from Moldex or Scat but they are pricey but boy are they pretty to look at.

 

so we go with a custom crank, its gonna run up the cost, but its what will work. then everything else will fit.

 

"so we go with a custom crank, its gonna run up the cost, but its what will work. then everything else will fit."

That's stating the obvious, but I was talking about an economical solution.

$264 + free shipping is hard to beat. Why not use an offset ground 400 crank? I'm not sure what that costs but it has to be more than $264.

SoM also claims 30% for strength than a stock iron crank. Iron cranks are lighter than steel and make more power providing they don't exceed structural limits. Based on ShaZam's 1st stroker motor, 550-600HP should be OK.

Cranks
http://www.speedomotive.com/news.htm

414C stroker article
http://www.speedomotive.com/Jack's%20Stand.htm

Building tips
http://www.speedomotive.com/Building%20Tips.htm

Custom thickness copper head gaskets found on the home page under Brands we use
http://WWW.SCEGASKETS.COM/

 

hey thanx for the support guys. i've built plenty of chevy race motors for the street and for the track. now i want something out of the mainstream. i'm gonna build this stroker as time and money allow mostly time now that i'm all healed up and back to work.

i was gonna do the 4.18 stroke then decided on the 4.15 stroke. either way i need the pistons machined to fit or buy a custom set. out of my price range right now. i haven't settled on the rods yet.
i don't know about the 1.1 c/h pistons for the 347 stroker being to short for the street. i do know chevy's run a real short c/h on the 383 stroker with the 6 inch rods. anyone else know any more?

i looked at the the PIM 3V aluminum heads. sweet, but a little pricey. i posted about using these heads on the "M" block and was basically told they wouldn't wwork on the street because the large amount of airflow they move. it's like 321 cfm or something close.
the D&D rebuild stated that a set of ported 400 heads already flowed more air and fuel than that motor could use. i was taught by an old timer to build engines. he told me that the best way to overcome a set of restrictive heads is to either swap them out or use a long stroke to pull more air into the cylinders. anymore theorys on this?

 

okay more on the heads. if you have a set of heads that can flow and maintain port velocity along with a long stroke it should be a really stout combo. i've done some checking into the PIM 3V heads they look like they would be a really decent set heads. the info says they combined the best attributes of the 2V and 4V heads. so this should be the 2V intake ports, the 4V valves, and the 4V exhaust ports, right? they also state that they maintain port velocity along with a high amount of flow. at $2100 bare it makes them a little pricey, but when you look at a set of heads with comparable flow for any other motor the price isn't really that high.

anyway here's another idea.

4.15 strroke
4.06 bore (= 429 cu.in.)
PIM 3V heads
2.19 intake
1.71 exhaust
218/226 @ .050
.512/.538 lift
a good 4 barrel intake
750 cfm carb
headers and a few other goodies.

anybody got a dyno? or a good guess on horsepower/torque?

anyway thanx again for your support and if i find anything new i'll let ya know

later............

 

"I've built plenty of chevy race motors for the street and for the track."

A chevy guy?
Let's see if we can pull you away from the Dark Side.

If I had to recommend a minimum piston height for a street motor, it would be about 1.250". Understand that the 4.6 modular uses a 1.220" piston height for a production engine. The main thing is to get the pin below the oil ring.

I found an Aussie site yesterday advertising the 3V heads for $2950. That works out to $1652 in US$$ at the current exchange. Don't be surprised if a set of ported 2V heads cost over $1000.

The 321 CFM is an ideal maximum at .650 valve lift. A milder cam will bring the numbers down. I'm sure they will respond much better than a 4V head because of the reduced intake port volume.

Usually, 500HP is about max for the 2V heads with good porting. By that I mean early 351C or Aussie 302C heads, not 351M/400 heads. They have a restrictive bulge in the exhaust port that can not be removed because of the water jacket.

Remember, a 400/429 stroker @ 6000 RPM flows as much air as a 351 @ 7300. Do more research, D & D wants to sell you what they have.

I don't agree with the long stroke for poor head flow. I would say more displacement is the reason. A larger bore allows larger valves or better unshrouding with small valves.

 

yea i was once a chevy guy. when your raised with them you usually stick with them. got tired of being like everyone so i bought an old ford. parts are still cheap plus the lifts are usually cheaper.

anyhow thanx for the info on the 351m/400 heads. i didn't know the water jacket came up into the exhaust port like that. would have really $#@%ed me off to cut in there and ruin a set of heads. what was that aussie site you found for the heads? around $1650 for a set of good aluminum heads is right on par with other motors. still working on a price for offset grinding a crank. speeedomotive wants $185 to do it, but that's on one of their new cranks. i call around when i get time.

the PIM 3V heads flow 321 cfm at .650 lift.

i might be wrong but i think they still flow over 300cfm at .550 lift. anyway i check later.

later......

 

I would rather not spend $1000+ for 2V heads and try to push them to the limit with a big cam.

Don't worry about the max airflow. The average airflow is more important and the cam you mentioned is fairly mild for a 7 liter. You can run about .5 point more compression with a 3V aluminum head, save 50 pounds, run stock 351C valve train parts if you like and know that more power is as easy as swapping cams.

There is a rumor about another Aussie 351C head in the works that may be even better than the 3V heads, but so far I haven't found any reliable sources.

This is the Pavtec main page. I don't think they ship internationally so you'll need a contact in Australia.
http://www.pavtek.com.au/ek_eliminator.html

351C "3V" New Ford Alloy Cleveland Heads.
http://www.pavtek.com.au/pp_3vheads.html
All the flow specs are there.

Does SoM make new cranks for a 400?

 

Just a reminder the
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/119419
board is more "Cleveland" oriented but has a lot of related topics.

I found this quote amusing.

Excerpt from The Book of Genesis, as related by the apostle Geoff (made this up in a newsgroup posting, think I'll keep it!);

"And on the seventh day the lord did drive his Fairlane, and it came to pass that he popped the hood to gaze upon the 427 he had created, and he saw that it was good. And the serpent was upon the motor, for there were 8 venturis, and this too was good.

So the Lord closed the hood and did drive from the garden of Dearborn, until he came to the house of Chevrolet where Satan was complaining that his cam had walked through his tin can timing cover. And the Lord didst ask "Why art thou persisting with that crap? Turn thee to the light, and see that it is blue". And satan grunted, for his waterpump-on-a-stick didst fall upon him, and he was of foul humour.

Seeing this, the Lord didst spin his tires all the way into 4th, and lo Satan was enshrouded in a curious blue mist that not being of oil, didst confuse him, and he was unable to see the light.

And so it came to pass that satan remained loyal to the house of Chevrolet".

Amen.