[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 09-Feb-01 AT 11:58 AM (EST)[/font][p]What's up guy's.
I was wondering if anybody has heard or has ever stroked a 400. It was just a whacky idea that I came up with when reading other post. So if anybody knows about this, could you let me know. Also could somebody give me the HP&Torque numbers for the 77' 400 and the 79' 351M
Later.

 

I've been thinking about it for a while. Offset grind it for a 4.2" stroke and 2.1" rod journals. With the tall deck of the 400 you could still fit a fairly long rod with some short Cleveland pistons.

 

>I was wondering if anybody has
>heard or has ever stroked
>a 400. It was just
>a whacky idea that I
>came up with when reading
>other post.

drago,

Not that somebody somewhere hasn't tried it, but I've never heard of stroking a 400. You could offset-grind the crankshaft rod journals, but you'd need expensive custom rods or expensive custom pistons, or both.

The 400 already has the longest stroke of any Ford pushrod V8 engine.

As for the Cleveland pistons, they would have to be custom units because the stock 351C piston has the same compression height as the 400 piston.

BubbaF250

1980 F250 4x4 Custom, 351M/NP435/NP208/D44HD-TTB/D60-FF/3.55s 6750 GVW, Rust & White.

 

Hey You all.. Stroking a 400 is easy. I'm currently running a 4.100 stroke and I also have a 4.200 stroke in the works. Now you can use the cast crank and have it off ground for the 4.100 but if you want to go more then that then you better look at getting a Forged or Billet one made for you.
Using your cast crank with the 4.100 stroke Your going to have to get yourself some different Rods with a 2.200 journal. And as much as I hate to say it Big Block Chevy rods fit the bill just get the right length for your piston comp. height.
I'm using All the good stuff in my Engine (Moldex Crank, Oliver Rods, JE Pistons in the 4.100)( Scat Billet Crank, Eagle ESP Rod, JE Piston, in the 4.200) but I'm sure you could use the regular cast Rods if you don't plan on spinning over 6000 RPM. In a matter of fact if you really want a kick butt combo Get some .030 351C 12 to 1 dome pistons put them on your 400 Rods (you'll have to bush the pins.) And you'll get a good 10 to 1 comp.with open chamber heads, and a 400 with about 425 hp.Top this off with a set of Aussie 351 2v Closed chamber heads and you'll be in the 11.5 to 1 Range or better.
My 4.100 Is currently Dyno'd at 667 HP and 564# TQ And the 4.200 well be a little bit more then that.Not too bad for a 400 Smog motor.

 

Please provide details on your existing 4.1" stroke setup that is producing 647HP.

I want to know (please repeat if necessary) what crank, stroke, rods (sizes) pistons, heads, cam, lifter, intake, and carb combination you're using.

I was considering a 460 setup for my Mach1, however the cost of conversion parts will set me back $800 before I even buy an engine, transmission, and begin the rebuilds.

 

667 HP and 564 ft. lbs. of torque out of a normally aspirated 400 with an offset ground stock crank.

Just wanted to repeat that for a couple of bone-heads (you know who you are) who come here trashing the M series.

Thanks a lot for the info Shazam!

 

Please provide details on your existing 4.1" stroke setup that is producing 647HP.
I want to know (please repeat if necessary) what crank, stroke, rods (sizes) pistons, heads, cam, lifter, intake, and carb combination you're using.

I was considering a 460 setup for my Mach1, however the cost of conversion parts will set me back $800 before I even buy an engine, transmission, and begin the rebuilds.

OK so you want to know all about my Stroked 400 .........
Let me first tell you all I'm a Truck Puller I have a 1978 F250 4X4 and her name is ShaZam..I pull in Open Stock An Super Stock classes in my area. And the Class rules say I have to have a Small Block motor For Open Stock. So that's where this all started .. Lets get the most out of a 400 as I can and still stay with in the rules.....

So OK here's the Nitty Gritty of ShaZam's Motor.

Can we all say Cha-Ching if you don't have a thick wallet then this set-up out of your league.

First I started out with a Forged Steel Crank From Moldex, Ground to the 4.100 Stroke With 2.100 SB Chevy Journals. Cost $1680.00, then I used Oliver 6.800 BB Chevy Rods with SB chevy Journals Cost $1350.00,Pistons are From JE piston Custom made 4.060 with 14.5 to 1 comp. With a 1.425 Comp. height.
(VERY IMPORTANT) The Deck Height of a 400 is 10.297 the First set of Piston JE made me had the wrong Deck height 10.200 so have your's checked before you order your pistons they do very ,my second block was 10.293 for my 4.200 Stoker.

OK I can hear you all now .. NO wonder he's getting 647 H.P.
he's got 14.5 to 1 pistons .. Yes I know you can't run this set up on the street, And I have to use Very High Octane Racing Fuel to keep it together. But This is a Purpose built motor made to do one thing and that make lots of Torque and Horsepower to pull me down the track.

And just so you all know if you where to use this set-up with 10 to 1 comp. pistons it will still make 581 H.P. an 546 # TQ.
OK with that said Cost of Pistons $1025.00 with JE going good for the Goof Up.

Then to the Machine Shop we go, have your block Magnafluxed and Sonic tested . If everything looks good then have them start with the line boring and honing and have it Sqaured & Decked and bored to size.You'll have to have the rods Side Clearanced .010 I think to fit the Ford Journal width and have the Block Clearanced for the rod bolts. Machine Work Cost $1250.00

Then have Your Rotating assembly Balanced, You have two way to have that done Externaly and internaly, Seeing as I was going to use a Fluidamper I opted for the Internaly Balance Job. Beside You get a better Balance doing it interanly. And then I order a 460 Zero Balance Flywheel when I order my Mcleod double disk slipper Clutch cost $1350.00.

OK anyone keeping Score so far $6655.00 Spent.

Then Comes the Heads Vintage 1969 Boss 302 4V heads, Why they have the biggest Valves I've every seen in a Small Block Ford.
Intake 2.25 Exhaust 1.74 and ports so big you can lose a Beer can in them. Porting these heads didn't take much time. Gasket match the intake side, and do some good Bowl Work on the exhaust and your done.Cost with new Valves and Springs $1650.00

Intake is a Edelbrock 351C Torker, And seeing it for a 351 Cleveland it 2" to narrow for the 400 so you have to get the Torker 351 4150 Flange plates to make it fit nice and neat on top.The only problem is they come with 2V intake ports, which means you have to Hog a lot to get them to match the 4V ports.
In come my buddie with his Bridgeport Milling Machine layout you port opening and start milling away the excess aluminum.
Cost 12 pack Miller Lite. For after the Jobs done not during....(VERY IMPORTANT).

The 750 modified Carb is a Holley unit From Bill Mitchell, suppose to flow almost 900 CFM'S. Cost $625.00

Oh ya and then there's this cute little Distributor Extension you need to get from Price Motorsports otherwise the Distributor hits the intake. cost $102.65.

OK and Now down to the Cam I'm Using. It seem no matter Who you call, they all have got just the cam you need. Well this has been the most Educating part of this engine build up.With the longer stroke it's important to get as much valve timing as possible to fill those cylinder.A Cam can make or brake your motor so finding the right one is really hard. Right now I'm using a Crower 15481 Which seem to be good. But I know there's a better one out there some where.But here are the numbers from the Cam Sheet.
Advertised spec.
Intake 285 Dreg. .644 Lift
Exhaust 292 Dreg. .625 Lift

Intake Open 24.0 btdc
Closes 48.0 abdc
Exhaust open 60.0 bbdc
Closes 20.0 atdc

Lobe Separtion 106 Dreg.

Duration at .050"

Intake 252 Dreg.
Exhaust 260 Dreg.

lobe lift

Intake .372
Exhaust .361
Lobe center line 102 Dreg.

Cost so far for my roller valve train, Rockers, Lifters, Cams,hardened pushrods. $705.00

And now the next to most important thing in this build up is the headers. None of this well do any good if you can let the spent gases out of the motor at your Max RPM which for me is 8000 RPM.
So I gave Headers By ED a call and Chatted with him for about an hour or more on my Dime .. Well lets say more like $25.00
and he told me all the ups and downs of have the wrong size headers for a given motor. So I started out with just his Flange plates and built my 2" wheel well exit headers from his kits.
Cost $1005.00

So OK let add it all up an see where were at .

Wow $10,117.65 Give or take a couple .

And Now the all IMPORTANT Disclaimer..
If Your Married It's Best to have the Wife on your side when you start a project like this. Other wise you may end up on the wrong side of the Fence watching..
My Wife Is the GREATEST She Loves my Hobbies and she supports me 110% ...... Live don't get any better then this .

 

Now this is impressive! I guess now you have to be worried
how to get that power to the ground. Have you won any yet?

 

n/m

 

Yes I have a couple of Trophies placed on the mantle, not as many as I would have like to have but you right learning to get all that power to the ground is just as hard.
And My new Scat Billet Crank is being finished up by Paul's Crank Shop out of Devin TX. He's got a Web site out there at
http://www.devtex.net/paulscrankshop
Check him out he's a GREAT Guy

ShaZam

 

Shame on you Daniel! Taking 30+ year old heads and using them on that piece o' junk smog motor to make all that horsepower and torque! Just who the heck do you think you are? You obviously haven't been following the discussions here or you'd know that you're only allowed to use a punched out big block or at least the latest "out of the box, whiz bang, racer boy" small block heads to make that much power.

Seriously it sounds like a heck of a motor, thanks for all the information. I'm using the Crower 15241 cam in the 400 I built, 276/281 A.D., .526/.533 Lift. Needless to say it isn't a dedicated puller like yours. Are you going to reuse the top end on the new motor or put something new together?

 

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 23-Feb-01 AT 03:02 PM (EST)[/font][p]Shazam, Excellent job. How come you didn't use the 400M 2 bbl heads???? They're supposed to be way better!!!(The knucklehead knows who is being referred to)

Let's see, $10,000 + for a motor that makes 100HP +60 pounds torque more than a crate engine that costs $4000 less which is spinning 2000 less RPMS. HMMMMMMMMMM............You think 'ole billy could do the math on that one?

FRPP 392 crate motor w AFR heads:

538HP @ 5800 RPM

504#torque @ 5000 RPM


BTW, Shazam, that sounds like an awesome rig/motor. Have you ever thought in hindsight there was an easier way?

 

Hey Hey :
Well as for what am I going to use on top of my Second motor, Well have any of you's ever been to Ebay.com they got stuff on there that would make you mouths water. I scored on a set of 1970 Boss 302 4V heads for my back up motor from there, and that's where I got the 1969 Boss 302 4V set also.The Valves on the 70 set are the 2.19/1.71 but I figured for a back up you still can't go wrong.

As for not Knowing you can't do stuff like this, There's a reason to my madness.My Class rules for OPEN STOCK read.

Must be Small Block Motor with Cast Heads,Can use aftermarket Intake and open Headers are allowed.

Now if your Truck has a 400 in it and you want to get the most out of it for this class You look to see what your competition is running.
In my Class there's 14 Trucks
6 Fords 2 running 400's stroked to 424
1 400 set-up to 408
1 running 390 stroked to 428 and
2 running 400's stroked to 435.
And there's one Powerwagon running the old 440 Wedge Motor Bored a Stroked to 500 plus C.I.
And the rest are Chevy Boys doing what ever they can with all the cheep parts they have at there disposal.
Last year the Club put a MAX. Cubic Inch rule in this class of 500 C.I
So I'm just Playing by the Rules that my Club has put forth.

And also I was just surfing one day and seen the posting "looking to stroke a 400" that's how I came to the message Board.

I hope I haven't Gotten anyone upset with me, Cuz Your not suppose to do this kinda stuff with these old Smog Motors.

ShaZam

 

<Shazam, Excellent job. How come you didn't use the 400M 2 bbl
<heads???? They're supposed to be way better!!!(The knucklehead
<knows who is being referred to)


OK I did do a lot of research on heads when I first put this motor together
and on paper the Aussie 2V heads do look good.
I had a set done up for me by Clay Smith Eng. and had the bigger Valves
2.19/1.71 put in and had them ported to flow the best they could and had
them milled to rocker studs and guide plates. But my motor never seem to
come to life like the Guys that where running the 4V heads. So I put the
Aussie heads on the shelf an got me the Boss Heads.

And now One day as I was doing my Morning sit on the Thinking Chair I
came across an article in one of the Hypo mags saying that if you don't
match your intake and heads to your stroker motor you'll have a motor
that falls flat on it's face when you put the boots to it. And that's just what
it did with the Aussie heads on her. she'd give me 6200 RPM no problem
but no more then that. Almost like it had a Governor on it..

Now Hey don't get me wrong here the Aussie Heads would be a Great
Street set-up. Just not cut out for Truck Pulling.

<BTW, Shazam, that sounds like an awesome rig/motor. Have you >ever
thought in hindsight there was an easier way?

Well I'll tell you all this I live in a really tough neighborhood. I have Six
Buddies that Truck Pull that live in the this General area.Three of them
run in the Stock Classes and they have 400's 460's 351W's that if put in a
Drag car would run in the 10's easy. Then I have Three Buddies that run
in the big buck classes. One has a 351W bored & Stroked to 454 C.I. that
will spin 9000 R.P.M. No problem. And one that has a 460 Bored & Stroke
to 518 C.I. putting out 850 H.P .. And then My main Sounding Board
Buddy that I go to with all my problems. He has a SVO 460 Borded &
Stroked to 610 C.I and last year it was Dyno'd at 1020 H.P. and over the
winter months he sent he's Aluminum heads out and had then Ported even
more for a possible 300 more H.P. So add that up and your looking at
1350 H.P.
So you ask me is there an Easier Way and I can say sure there is
I could have took the 390T Fe Block and done some Tweaking on it and
ended up 454 C.I. or gone an jump up in class an ran Super Stock and
Mod. and built a 460 like the one my buddy has, And I might still end up
there. But for now I like playing with the 400 just to see what I can get out
of it for now.. I mean there's still lots of room for improvement, the hard
part is finding the go fast parts for it. I'm now trying to find a main Stud
Girdle for my 400 and I'll probably end up making one myself Cuz There's
not many Hypo parts out there for this Smog Motor.


ShaZam

 

i know someone will jump on me for this, but if i spent 10 grand, i'd want and expect more than 650hp. what did you do to the main bearing caps, with compression like, i'm surprised you can keep a crank in it.

where do you pull? i toy around with it also, except i run with the big boys, i've run a couple down if florida, and a few state and county fairs here in ohio, as a matter of fact, i'm searching for a new truck now.