So i attempted to butt weld a panel in tonight... Not so good...i have the heat set as low as it will go and i still blow through the panel... I'm pretty much sold on the adhesive from here on out... What a mess...no harm no foul though, I cut out the few tacks that actually stuck. Anyone else used the adhesive with any luck?

 

What type of welder do you have? MIG with short tacs should do the trick... Can you set up some scrap and practice? If using MIG are you outdoors in the wind?

 

Before giving up hope on the welder, read my post in this thread on butt welding:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...ging-tool.html


If that doesn't seem to help, let us know what machine you have, gas or flux core, etc, and post some pics of what you did. You'd be surprised how a few suggestions will set you on your way.

 

Duke...don't give up hope on butt-welding, assuming you have a MIG. I butt-welded a couple panels on the bed of my '89 last year, and it took a LOT of practice. Unfortunately, I decided to practice ON THE BED, so I got some warpage. I had the wire speed and the voltage turned all the way down, but still managed to warp stuff a little bit.

I think my problem was that I was welding with .030" wire. Everything I've read says for welding sheetmetal you want .023" wire. Kinda makes sense...the bigger wire will carry more current, and that's bad for keeping heat to a minimum.

Also keep in mind (if you already aren't) that you want to stitch weld...don't try to run a single bead for a long time into your joint. I'm talking anything more than the time it takes you to pull the trigger and let off. I'm talking one ZZZT at a time.

Before any pro welders rag on me, keep in mind I'm a COMPLETE novice and still learning...but I think I have the basics down!

 

Nice thread, very good info. So what i did was to fit the panel as tight as possible, made sense to me, but i turned the heat down all the way and the speed. From your post i see that is a mistake.

The welder i have is a Craftsman Flux core, borrowed from a friend. The problem i have with it is the heat selection is a min/max switch. There is no in between. I did have some scraps and did some practicing, one big problem for me is when i lower the shield i have no idea where the heck i'm at... i hate to admit it i spend a ton of time raiseing and lowering the helmet...

I think i'll try the welder again when i have a spot that is not as noticable as the rear wheel wells...

 

MIG welding sheet metal can be challenging and Butt welds are probably the hardest to do. I will second the above advise of using 0.023" wire and you should also be using a MIG shielding gas, and only use short bursts to generate small tacks, and allow the weld and surrounding metal to cool to prevent warping the sheet metal. Don't weld in just one place for too long, but jump between different area to be welding until all your tacks become one continuous weld. If any warpage starts to occur fix as you go w/ a hammer-n-dolly. A copper plate used as a backer will prevent you from burning through the sheet metal.

I'm by no means an expert on the subject, since I only just started doing my own body work on my F150 restoration project. I've used both MIG welding and panel adhesive during this project and I feel both work well when done properly. Here's a link to thread discussing the use of 3M panel adhesive to install new cab corners on my 77 F150. For this repair I also used my MIG welder, so I feel both approaches are needed.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...Panel+Adhesive

 

1) If you're blowing holes, try setting the speed faster. The heat is obviously there, and if it's melting holes, you need to "feed it"

2) On a flux core machine that has the capability to convert to gas, when using the flux core wire, the electrode (wire feed) should be connected to the positive terminal. Current flows from a neg to a pos direction, and what this does for a flux core machine is to start melting the wire (and thus the flux) first so that the shielding gas cloud can be formed. The adverse effect of this configuration is that you won't get as high an output or as much weld penetration using the polarity set up this way, nature of the beast. Should not be an issue with sheet metal, but may be if you're trying something thicker. So if you are indeed experiencing too much heat with the flux core wire, just insure that you have the polarity set up right, which should also decrease the output slightly.

FYI, in the gas bottle/solid wire configuration, the electrode/wire feed is connected to the negative terminal.

3) Location, location. I have an auto darkening helmet and it makes the world of difference. Even still, something that may help out: Bump your trigger to advance the wire (before welding) Cut the wire off at about 1/2" protruding. The fresh cut will make the weld start easier than if there's a weld ball hanging there, and also in your case will help the flux form the shielding cloud quicker. Now, with hand off the trigger, drag the end of the wire across your weld joint of the two pieces of metal. You'll feel it "hang up" when you find the joint. Stop there, slightly raise the torch off the surface, and tack weld it. You can see how this will help you out with location finding, I even use it at times with my helmet in darker light conditions.


See if these tips help out, and let us know how it worked out for you.....

 

If you don't do this already, there's a trick to lowering your helmet so that you don't loose your tip position. You want to tighten/loosen the bolts that connect the helmet to the head band just enough so that you can nod your head to lower the helmet. It's simple. Set your tip position, steady both hands and nod. The helmet should lower and you're ready to weld. Good luck!

 

Yup,
MIG, auto-dark helmet, .023" wire, lots-o tacs and patients; you'll get it.

 

Duke,

As far as I'm concerned you can just FORGET about welding body panels with flux core. Use gas, fit the parts with a SMALL space to put a series of tacks into. Do not try to just take off and run a bead. Even if you are successful in running a good bead, you will warp the heck out of the metal.

You can't do it with flux core because you can't weld over the flux. Since you will be doing a gazillion small tacks that would mean that you had to clean after EVERY TACK! With gas, the weld is shielded by the gas and is clean so that you can just keep letting the tacks overlap where necessary.

Did I say that the gap between panels should be SMALL? Just in case I didn't say it, the gap between sheet metal pieces to be butt welded should be SMALL!

Good luck with it

 

I was dork'n around with the welder tonight, a bit. i have a dent that i'm going to be pulling shortly nothing major. So i welded on some washers in the crease so i can use a slide hammer to pull it... I have to say it was a lot easier tonight, altough i still made plenty of errors. Turned the heat down and the wire feed up...pretty big difference. I could tack for the most part i still missed the spot when the helmet went down...I do the knod i still second guess it though... I'm definitly having fun i'm looking for more uses for the welder in less noticable spots... I would love to try a mig with shield gas however for now this is all i have. The tacks clean up pretty good with the wire attachment on the angle grinder, i just don't like all of the splatter...

 

It sounds like you need an auto dark helmet. For doing the series of small tacks as I describe an auto dark helmet will help a LOT! They have gotten a lot cheaper than they were when they first came out. You can get a decent one now for around $100.

Welding is like painting: practice, Practice, PRACTICE.

Good luck,

 

Tried some welding, this is what i got. Not bad for a noob, a weeks worth of messing around... Thanks for all the info...

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2528...02354164vFKhwF
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2364...02354164gYzhqT
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2755...02354164zmhNbC
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2641...02354164eNFQiN

 

a tig would be alot more easy for sheet metel from what i understand one reason cuz of the level of control you get with a tig i but im probably wrong i need to shut my mouth about something i really don't know that much about yet lol

 

I have never used a TIG welder myself, but I've seen it done many times and you're correct that it is better for sheet metal because you can control the heat better. I've heard that TIG welding is much more difficult to master than MIG and is a lot more expensive.