This is an update to this thread https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/702525-metal-shavings-in-oil-pan.html?highlight=camshaft+bearings

Truck is: '79 F250 400. Mileage probably between 120k - 140k

The metal shavings (see them here: http://wisdomranch.org/shavings-2.htm) are indeed cam bearing material. I have the motor out and was able to turn it upside down and get a look at the 2 middle cam journals. I can see bearing material sticking outof both . You should know that this is the deepest I have been in an engine - I am in uncharted waters here. So a few newbie questions:

1. Is this something I can do?
2. Do I come at it by removing the crankshaft?
3. Should the camshaft be replaced? or How can I tell if it should be?
4. What will eventually happen if I ignore this and just put the engine back together as is?
5. What other damage could this have caused that I should address?
6. What is the stupidest mistake I could make to really screw this up?

Thanks

 

The stupidest thing would be to try to patch it up. With 140K on it many parts need replacement.
Chances are some of that material got to other places, like the main bearings and scored them. You could pull one of the main caps and rod caps to look at those bearings. Let us know how they look.

I think that the minimum that you should do is:
Disassemble the motor and have the block cleaned and new cam bearings installed.
Have the cylinders checked for roundness and size.
Hone cylinders and install new rings.
Have the crank reground and install new rod and main bearings.
New timing set and oil pump.
Examine cam and lifters, replace as a set.
Check heads and valves, springs etc.

 

danlee,

thanks, that is helpful. I pulled the cam tonight and the front 3 cam bearings were going, can't see the rear one. I pulled the front and rear crank bearing caps. The front one had 2 score lines, not too deep, the rear is wearing down to the copper. So I'll def do the rod and crank bearings.

What determines if I need the crank reground?

At this point I'm pulling the heads and having them hot tanked.

I think that when it comes to the cylinders/pistons I am good. I don't think I'm loosing oil past the rings, never blue smoke on cold starts. Part of me does not want to disturb the "soul" of the engine.The other part of me knows that I don't know what I am doing.

By new timing set do you mean replacing both timing gears and chain? The tooths on the cam gear are plastic and I can see cracks and wear.

Is removing and replacing the cam bearings something I can do or not? I know I need a special tool to do it.

 

Get a book on engine rebuilding. Tom Monroe's book on how to rebuild a Ford Engine 351C, 351M, 400, 429, 460 is a good one.

You can measure the crank bearing clearance with plastigauge. If the clearances are excessive the crank will need regrinding.

A timing set is the gears and chain. Get a good double roller set with 3 keyways, and set it to 'straight up'.


I have never replaced cam bearings myself, but I think that you can do it. It should be easier with the crank removed. The cam bearings are different sizes, depending on their location. This is where a book is necessary.

 

ordered that book earlier today.....

 

good chance to get new high scr pistons and camshaft.... just my opinion....

 

TuckerJW;
If your cam bearings were splaying and fraying, it is possible your engine lost oil pressure at some point. The cleveland style engines had some reputation for having low oil flow in the cam journals. Some guys put an external oil line or made other changes. Most engines never suffer from this, or if they did suffer it was late in their life. Your description reminded me of this trait. If everything wore out over time, the cam probably got starved for oil flow. Replacing only cam bearings won't fix THAT problem.
As for the overhaul, don't be afraid to tear it apart, and please please please, don't do a poor or half hearted overhaul that is bound to fail early. If you tear this engine completely down to it's "soul", refab or reman everything possible back to approved standards, you will have a new engine ready to go another 120 to 140k. Cutting corners is the most common mistake made in engine rebuilds. Think of the old saying "you can do it right, or you can do it over.."
Okay, enough lecture. Wear on the crank will show as grooves or ridge on the crank jounrnal. Use your fingernail to scrape from the center of the journal toward the edge. A worn main will have a ridge near the outer edge. The rods will have a ridge on the center and also on the edges. HOw much is too much? You need a micrometer to know for sure. Your visual and feel inspection will indicate if you need to pursue it further. Do the same test on your cylinders, where the rings travel each cycle of the piston. My rule of thumb is, if you can feel a ring groove, it's time to bore it. Anything over .010 gets bored. Other people have different standards. Again, an engine machine shop can measure the bore.
An engine with that many miles will show it's age through wear. With cam bearing splaying and sloughing, you will have that same material pumped all through the engine via the oil stream. I'd have trouble sleeping at night As the engine wears, the tolerances between bearings and rotating parts grows greater, increasing oil flow through high wear areas, and starving some other areas. Oil will follow the path of least resistance.
The cam bearings are tapered, and get smaller toward the rear of the engine. You use a cam bearing driver to seat them. The bearings come in a box arranged in the correct order. When installing you have to align the oil holes with the oil journals, then pound them into place.

The timing gears or "timing set" are retarded on some years of these engines. During an overhaul you can put it back to "0" degrees which removes the retarding and makes it run sweet again.
If you have never overhauled an engine and are determined, do the homework and ask plenty of questions. There is plenty help here. If you are only mildly curious and just want it to run again, go find an engine shop and ask them what it might cost to drop your engine off with them, grind the crank, hone it, bore if necessary, and return the engine back to you with the rotating assembly (deck down) assembled. YOu can do all this, but some special tools are required (cam driver, ring compressor).

Anyhow, read the book and ask more questions.
tom

 

Thanks, Tom

I'll be diving in head first. You're right. Might as well do the whole thing.