she couldnt pull it
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 651
Likes: 0
From: northeast, KY
Originally Posted by KelVarnson
.....And a poperly-geared 250 HP gas motor will generate the same amount of rear-wheel torque as a properly-geared 250 HP diesel.
There's no way my grandpa's little 3.0 that pumps out 200 horsepower is going to outpull my 351 that has the same horses, everything else being equal, like your saying.
Same thing with a diesel. Diesels aren't like a gasser....whenever the horsepower goes up, so does the torque. A 7.3 makes it's horsepower AND torque peak at just about the same RPM, unlike a gasser, where when the horsepower rises, the torque drops.
To me it's like your saying you can take a little 4 cylinder honda pushing 250 horsepower, THEN dropping it in a superduty and expecting it to pull the same load as a 7.3 making the same horsepower, everything else being equal...impossible to say the least. Your gonna need torque....
Matt
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 421
From: Long Island USA
Originally Posted by KelVarnson
And a poperly-geared 250 HP gas motor will generate the same amount of rear-wheel torque as a properly-geared 250 HP diesel.
However, the torque curves are much different, and the amount of low-end torque is WAY different.
HP ratings are at the peak HP - it has nothing to do with how well the engine will pull a load all over the RPM range.
I've had this discussion with Hemi owners (in-laws) comparing their 5.7 to my V10. And then I show them how I can pull 2ft diameter trees through the woods at 1200RPM. They wouldn't try it though, their IFS front-end would have been dragging on the ground
They don't get it. Even though their HP rating is higher than my 2-valve V10, I can do much more actual work at a lower RPM. Because my V10 puts out 80% of it's peak torque at 1000RPM.
I've always had this idea for a way to measure torque across the board - figure the area under the curve from 1000 RPM to the HP peak RPM.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 23,174
Likes: 1,678
From: Stephensville WI
People don't understand torque vs. horsepower.
Say you have two guys lifting 50 pound sacks of feed into a truck. They both have the same torque rating.
One guy does 2 sacks a minute, the other does 4 sacks a minute. The second guy has twice the horsepower as the first guy.
So, loads and gearing being equal, the higher horsepower will win the race.
However, this is not a race and these are not muscle cars. Raw torque will pull your load. Remember, some of the semis of the past only had 180 horsepower, yet they pulled 80,000 pound combos up and down the road. They may not have gone up the hills fast, but they got the job done.
Say you have two guys lifting 50 pound sacks of feed into a truck. They both have the same torque rating.
One guy does 2 sacks a minute, the other does 4 sacks a minute. The second guy has twice the horsepower as the first guy.
So, loads and gearing being equal, the higher horsepower will win the race.
However, this is not a race and these are not muscle cars. Raw torque will pull your load. Remember, some of the semis of the past only had 180 horsepower, yet they pulled 80,000 pound combos up and down the road. They may not have gone up the hills fast, but they got the job done.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,191
Likes: 4
From: Blairsville,Ga
[QUOTE=Truckin4life]alright just what ihave read, there are some VERY misinformed people here. Horespower, does NOT alway win. Any REAL gear head knows, that torque is what gets the wheels moving. If gassers pulled just as good as a diesel, then why would EVERY semi i have EVER seen be DIESEL powered, wouldnt it just make since to power it with gas and just get rid of diesel all together.
QUOTE]
wish I was young enough to say that,I can remember when very few were diesel
QUOTE]
wish I was young enough to say that,I can remember when very few were diesel
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 39
Remember, the original post was about a 5.4 pulling a load up a short steep hill under a narrow set of conditions. Not doing that every day, all day long. Please don't think that I have lost sight of the fact that there are major differences between these engines.
The guy was asking about 7.3's and I wanted to make it clear that a stock 7.3, while pretty good, is not the solution to every towing problem.
The guy was asking about 7.3's and I wanted to make it clear that a stock 7.3, while pretty good, is not the solution to every towing problem.
Last edited by KelVarnson; Feb 14, 2008 at 09:05 AM.
Hook it, I'll pull it.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 15,037
Likes: 4
From: Grand Lake, La.
Originally Posted by KelVarnson
Remember, the original post was about a 5.4 pulling a load up a short steep hill under a narrow set of conditions. Not doing that every day, all day long. Please don't think that I have lost sight of the fact that there are major differences between these engines.
The guy was asking about 7.3's and I wanted to make it clear that a stock 7.3, while pretty good, is not the solution to every towing problem.
The guy was asking about 7.3's and I wanted to make it clear that a stock 7.3, while pretty good, is not the solution to every towing problem.
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Lead Driver
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,613
Likes: 9
From: Flagstaff, Arizona
something was going on with your trucks engine or transmission, even a stock 5.4 should have NEVER had a problem towing an empty trailer! It's comparing apples to oranges comparing the 5.4 and 7.3 when it comes to towing
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,643
Likes: 8
From: NE Texas
Originally Posted by UP_There
something was going on with your trucks engine or transmission, even a stock 5.4 should have NEVER had a problem towing an empty trailer! It's comparing apples to oranges comparing the 5.4 and 7.3 when it comes to towing
It's a poor frog that'll croak for its own pond...
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
From: Upstate, NY
Something Wrong
I have never owned a 7.3. I have however owned a 5.4 and currently own a 6.0 PSD.
The 5.4 was the 2 valve version as is yours. It was in an extended cab long box 4x4 with XLT and FX4 options, and just about every other option available. I never weighed it but it was heavy.
That truck routinely pulled a 7000 lb 26 ft. trailer while carrying three adults, a full bed of firewood with generator, and supplies in the trailer for two weeks, up and down and through the Adirondack mountains in NY and I never had a power problem.
I won't get into the gas vs diesel or Hp vs torque debate. There are no winners in that argument.
I loved my 5.4 and love my 6.0. Have not towed with the 6.0 yet.
The 5.4 was the 2 valve version as is yours. It was in an extended cab long box 4x4 with XLT and FX4 options, and just about every other option available. I never weighed it but it was heavy.
That truck routinely pulled a 7000 lb 26 ft. trailer while carrying three adults, a full bed of firewood with generator, and supplies in the trailer for two weeks, up and down and through the Adirondack mountains in NY and I never had a power problem.
I won't get into the gas vs diesel or Hp vs torque debate. There are no winners in that argument.
I loved my 5.4 and love my 6.0. Have not towed with the 6.0 yet.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 1
From: PA
Originally Posted by rbaker6336
wish I was young enough to say that,I can remember when very few were diesel
I'm not that old, but I have read enough articles that there were gas powered big trucks. heck I have seen them. There is a mid 60's GMC tandem axle truck (guessing on year) powered by an inline 6 gas sitting in the woods not far from home. And I also was reading about MACK trucks using gasoline engines as well.
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