OK guys.

I know this is might bring up a lot of confusion or problems but I've been reading a lot about engines on these here boards.

Here's what I've been needing to know.

I've got a 77 f-250 crew cab 4x4 awesome truck with a 351m.
I see a lot of guys building these engines but this truck deserves a 460 or a 429.
I can get a 460, but I might have a little bit of trouble finding a 429.
Does anyone in the illinois area have one?

I know the 429 has a shorter stroke so it gives it a little bit lower end torque than the 460.
I read about the 429 and 460 engine being lazy.

The longer strokes and small blocks might be the way to go, but the possibilities of a big block will always,at least in my opinion
out-do a small block, cause they are "bigger",afterall?

If anyone can send me in the right direction please do.

Is a 460 or 429 better than 351m ?

What ever engine I do get,if it needs it new rings,(etc),Basic stuff like a mild cam ,bigger carb, high rise intake, and other small stuff.

Which engine will do me better ?

The only thing im afraid is lack of power. I dont want to put all that money in a small block and not be able to get through mud holes or up hills.
That's why I'm leaning towards the big block.

Any comments or answers appreciated..


mike

Edited By Administration for, Reader Friendly Reasons

 

Longer stroke equates to more torque at lower RPMs not less.

351M 3.5" stroke
429 3.55" stroke
460 3.85" stroke
400 4.0" stroke

There are several reasons that many people swap 385 series in to trucks equipped with 335 series motors.

1. They will fit and you don't have to change the tranny.
2. The 460 is a heck of a good engine and can be built to produce some incredible numbers.
3. There are a lot more performance parts on the market for the 460 than the 351M/400.
4. There is no replacement for displacement.

Just be aware that the swap is going to set you back an additional $1000 to $1500 if you do it right.

 

A small block will make as much power as a big block. The only probem is that they will live a shorter life, cost huge dollars to build so they stay together, and also the power will only be available from 8000-12000 RPM.

Or you could build a healthy 500hp-550ftlb 460 for less money, it will live way longer, and most of your power is in by 2500-3500 RPM, and you could still drive grandma to church on Sundays with it. Physics will always prevail over theory, no point in fighting it.

Nick from the frozen north
1974 F-250 4X4
soon to be 429
dana 60 front and rear

 

And by the way, The longer the stroke, the more low end torque. This is why Semi's with 6 cylinders that can only turn about 2300rpm, can move 80,000lbs down the road.

 

>Just be aware that the swap is going to set you back an
>additional $1000 to $1500 if you do it right.

To expound on Bill's comment,

engine mounts - $150
pan if passenger car engine - 100
exhaust system with duals - 350
radiator rerod - 100
carb/ignition rebuild (you'd have these in place with the 351) - 150
miscellaneous - (radiator hoses, vac lines, carb linkage, etc.) - 100

You can try doing it on the cheap, but if you're mudding stock mounts won't last long, the 385 is exhaust deficient and needs at least a 2.5" dual exhaust with minimal restriction mufflers, preferably headers (another $500), you'll need good radiator capacity for the increased heat generated by the 385 and miscellaneous can expand at a rapid rate.

The plus side is power. There's no way a mild 351M can hold a candle to a mild 460.

 

The 429 i would put in a 1/4 mile drag truck, a high rpm screamer, the 460 would give a ton of power anywhere you need it.

 

My experience with tow vehicles that I have had is that a small block can run like a hot rod, but put a load on it and the power goes away fast, as opposed to the big blocks, they just keep puling and pulling.

Like they say, there is no replacement for displacement.

 

I'd like to offer my opinion. I don't know anything about a 460, because I never had one. I did go fom a 390 to a small block. HUGE mistake. I made the swap because of parts availability and price. I put about $2000 into the small block and it doesnt come any where close to the basicly stock big block. It has no horsepower to speak of and probably doesn't make enough torque to pull a setting hen off of her nest. The thing to remember is trucks are heavy, and it takes torque to move them. A small block just doesn't have it. I spent roughly $800 on that 390 on stock rebuild and edelbrock performer manifold. I firmly agree with the previous post.....no replacement for displacement. I'm looking for a 460 for mine now. If a 390 was good a 460 has to be better.

 

And you can stroke the 460 upwards of 604

Makes my 509 seem kinda small

 

That "No replacement for displacement" must be unknown to ford's designers.(7.3L to 6.0L)It seems like the more a computer controls on an engine the less displacement it needs.Maybe a 4-cylinder torque king in 2010?

I only spent money on headers and l&l mounts for my truck(1978 F-150)and everything else just bolted up.Just lucky I guess.

 

No, 2010, Ford will probably have a nuclear power truck, with a 2000 horsepower electric motor to drive it. No more fuel stops or emissions tests... Just go! (Oh, and a coolant leak on those would be a BIG problem!) LOL
Mark


https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/displaythumbnail.php?&photoid=5362&.jpg
Ford started it; Ford will finish it!

 

 

I would go with a 385 series block that is the cheapest. Then I would put a 514 stroker crank kit in it. Depending on your purpose for the truck I would select some low gears. 4.56s can really wake up even a small block

 

It's not the stroke, it's the extra couple of liters of turbocharged displacement that's responsible for the extra torque.

Brad

 

Maybe A turbo or two would be the best way to go. However If finding a 429 is difficult for you than turbocharging is probably out of your budget. Your best bet would be to find a Four Bolt Main 460, get it breathing right, then just smile at all the 351m trucks in your rearveiw mirror. But brad is right, forced induction is more responsible for my torque than the stroke of the engine.