Spark plugs...years affected?
Cross-Country
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 91
Likes: 1
I have been following these spark plug thread for awhile now and I still don't have all the facts.
1. Does the entire shield entend into the combustions chamber or just a portion?
2. Does the shield actually corrode or does the carbon build up on the exposed shield and "seal" it to the head?
3. While the head and plug design has not changed for the 5.4L 3v engines between 2004-Oct2007, there are no TSB's that address the 2006-2007 5.4L 3v engines for sparg plug removal, only the 2004-2005. Is this due to the nickle anti-sieze being utilized by Ford?
4. Does tha nickle anti-sieze compound work that well?
5. Where exactly do you apply the anti-sieze compound? The plug threads or the shield? If you apply it to the shield, won't it burn off during combustion? If you apply it to the threads, how does this prevent the carbon from build up on the exposed portion of the shield and effectively welding the shield to the head?
Thanks
1. Does the entire shield entend into the combustions chamber or just a portion?
2. Does the shield actually corrode or does the carbon build up on the exposed shield and "seal" it to the head?
3. While the head and plug design has not changed for the 5.4L 3v engines between 2004-Oct2007, there are no TSB's that address the 2006-2007 5.4L 3v engines for sparg plug removal, only the 2004-2005. Is this due to the nickle anti-sieze being utilized by Ford?
4. Does tha nickle anti-sieze compound work that well?
5. Where exactly do you apply the anti-sieze compound? The plug threads or the shield? If you apply it to the shield, won't it burn off during combustion? If you apply it to the threads, how does this prevent the carbon from build up on the exposed portion of the shield and effectively welding the shield to the head?
Thanks
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 781
Likes: 18
From: East Texas
I have been following these spark plug thread for awhile now and I still don't have all the facts.
1. Does the entire shield entend into the combustions chamber or just a portion? Based on drawings I've seen, I believe only the electrode is exposed to the combustion chamber
2. Does the shield actually corrode or does the carbon build up on the exposed shield and "seal" it to the head? Carbon buildup is the main concern
3. While the head and plug design has not changed for the 5.4L 3v engines between 2004-Oct2007, there are no TSB's that address the 2006-2007 5.4L 3v engines for sparg plug removal, only the 2004-2005. Is this due to the nickle anti-sieze being utilized by Ford? I've seen it rumored that Ford applied the nickel anti seize, but I've seen some posters say they did not see any on the later model trucks on removal of the plugs
4. Does tha nickle anti-sieze compound work that well? I don't know. However, the nickel anti-seize is rated to a higher temperature
5. Where exactly do you apply the anti-sieze compound? The plug threads or the shield? If you apply it to the shield, won't it burn off during combustion? If you apply it to the threads, how does this prevent the carbon from build up on the exposed portion of the shield and effectively welding the shield to the head? Per the TSB, it's my understanding the anti-seize is applied to the shield only. Hence the spec on the nickel anti-seize due to the higher temp rating
I have not changed the plugs on my 2005 (18,000 miles), so I have not tried a plug change first hand. Hopefully, if I've given any false information someone will come along to correct.
1. Does the entire shield entend into the combustions chamber or just a portion? Based on drawings I've seen, I believe only the electrode is exposed to the combustion chamber
2. Does the shield actually corrode or does the carbon build up on the exposed shield and "seal" it to the head? Carbon buildup is the main concern
3. While the head and plug design has not changed for the 5.4L 3v engines between 2004-Oct2007, there are no TSB's that address the 2006-2007 5.4L 3v engines for sparg plug removal, only the 2004-2005. Is this due to the nickle anti-sieze being utilized by Ford? I've seen it rumored that Ford applied the nickel anti seize, but I've seen some posters say they did not see any on the later model trucks on removal of the plugs
4. Does tha nickle anti-sieze compound work that well? I don't know. However, the nickel anti-seize is rated to a higher temperature
5. Where exactly do you apply the anti-sieze compound? The plug threads or the shield? If you apply it to the shield, won't it burn off during combustion? If you apply it to the threads, how does this prevent the carbon from build up on the exposed portion of the shield and effectively welding the shield to the head? Per the TSB, it's my understanding the anti-seize is applied to the shield only. Hence the spec on the nickel anti-seize due to the higher temp rating
I have not changed the plugs on my 2005 (18,000 miles), so I have not tried a plug change first hand. Hopefully, if I've given any false information someone will come along to correct.
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by ford9c
I don't believe that there is much ford can do. The design is such that the clearances between the protruding part on the spark plug and the cylinder head walls are very, very tight. If carbon builds up between the two it basically acts like a wedge when you try to get the spark plug back out. Although ford has required that the plug ends are crimed onto the rest of the plug more solidly, there is still a good chance you could run into trouble. In my mind at least the first spark plug change should be on ford's dime. Other than that, make sure you trade in the truck before it needs its first plug change. It doesn't solve the problem but at least you won't have to worry about it. PS, To date all ford 3v engines fall into this category,
Tuned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 311
Likes: 7
From: East TN
Originally Posted by motown
Does anybody know if the F250's are having the same problem, or is the F250 5.4L different than the one in the F150's. I am looking at a 2005 F250, to replace my 04 F150 that I am selling, and it has a 5.4L and I don't want to get in to the same situation with it. I aske this question over in the Superduty section and didn't get a clear answer.
, so yes the same problem is had with the 250's and 350's, but from what i understand its only from 96 models to 2003 models?
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 781
Likes: 18
From: East Texas
Browntown, some of the earlier 5.4s with the 2V head had the blowout problem. This problem is with the 3V heads (beginning in 2004 MY). The electrode and shield extend below the threads of the plug in a tight space leading to the combustion chamber. Carbon buildup in this space could cause sticking of the shield when attempting to remove the plugs.
To answer the question regarding 250's and 350's, I believe those models got the same 5.4 3V engines so yes, they could have the same problem.
To answer the question regarding 250's and 350's, I believe those models got the same 5.4 3V engines so yes, they could have the same problem.
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 589
Likes: 0
From: Stockton Ca.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...rt-change.html
Amazing that Ford can make such nice trucks and yet screw up something as simple as a spark plug change.
Amazing that Ford can make such nice trucks and yet screw up something as simple as a spark plug change.
New User
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
I use 10 ozs of Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas every fill up since new...I'm hoping this works...only 14k on truck...
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New User
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
I have an 05 f250 in my shop right now that has 4 out of 8 with the electrode still in the head only has 87000 miles and have been changed at ford @42000. Belongs to fire marshall, they wanted to change them sooner so they wouldn't have this problem what they didn't count on was all the idle time they have at fire scenes. ooops!
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix, AZ
Does anybody know if the F250's are having the same problem, or is the F250 5.4L different than the one in the F150's. I am looking at a 2005 F250, to replace my 04 F150 that I am selling, and it has a 5.4L and I don't want to get in to the same situation with it. I aske this question over in the Superduty section and didn't get a clear answer.
I have an 05 f250 in my shop right now that has 4 out of 8 with the electrode still in the head only has 87000 miles and have been changed at ford @42000. Belongs to fire marshall, they wanted to change them sooner so they wouldn't have this problem what they didn't count on was all the idle time they have at fire scenes. ooops!
It happens on everything using a 3v head. you're looking at:
F150, F250, F350, Mustang, Navigator.
The reason it seems it "only" happens to the F150 is because:
1. they came out first with it - 2004, mustangs, superduties and navigator followed in 2005
2. F150 sells much greater numbers
3. Much larger chance because of the previous 2, to reach 100k and have that first spark plug change go bad.
Once more people hit the 100k mark, the proverbial fan will be in trouble... sucks for those of us that are there or close to it...
Usually Ford used to test newer technology in smaller number cars - lincoln mark VIII and crown vic for example were the test beds for mod motors... Why they didn't do this with the 3v heads is beyond me.
at the latest tomorrow, my F150 is history...
MMNC (SS)(Ret)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,606
Likes: 149
From: SE Georgia
5.4 4v Mustang GT 500
5.4 3v was never in the Mustang
and what's happening to the F-150?
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix, AZ
here's one story... plugs broke at 38k miles.
http://forums.stangnet.com/738714-3v...ange-hell.html
the only one I did forget are the explorer and sport trac; newer ones are sporting the 3v heads as well.
the F150 is growing up, gonna gain 10hp, 60lbs of torque, heated leather seats and no spark plug problems (or maybe different kinds of spark plug problems, who knows)
the last pic of it:
MMNC (SS)(Ret)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,606
Likes: 149
From: SE Georgia
didn't know the Cobra R was a 4v. thought it was just Ford trying to stuff a 5.4 and compare to the 1999 GT they built with the V-10
the way I read your post, I thought you were saying the 5.4 3v was in a Mustang...didn't read close enough to realize you meant 3v heads in general
so you saying you're buy a 09 Ford? or going outside the fold? details man
the way I read your post, I thought you were saying the 5.4 3v was in a Mustang...didn't read close enough to realize you meant 3v heads in general
so you saying you're buy a 09 Ford? or going outside the fold? details man
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix, AZ
didn't know the Cobra R was a 4v. thought it was just Ford trying to stuff a 5.4 and compare to the 1999 GT they built with the V-10
the way I read your post, I thought you were saying the 5.4 3v was in a Mustang...didn't read close enough to realize you meant 3v heads in general
so you saying you're buy a 09 Ford? or going outside the fold? details man
the way I read your post, I thought you were saying the 5.4 3v was in a Mustang...didn't read close enough to realize you meant 3v heads in general
so you saying you're buy a 09 Ford? or going outside the fold? details man
New User
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Update on the F-250 5.4 3v
Update, well the broken remnants of 1 plug was removed with relative ease. But the other 3 won't come out. Heads have to come off, Step #1 of removal pull the engine! I have my week end full of a Ford engine. Think of us when you are relaxing in front of the TV,
Kathy
Kathy