View Poll Results: Will it or won't it?
It will (I am a licensed pilot)
5
11.36%
It will (I am not a licensed pilot)
24
54.55%
It will not (I am a licensed pilot)
5
11.36%
It will not (I am not a licensed pilot)
10
22.73%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll
Poll: Will it or Won't It
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
From: North NJ
Originally Posted by BLK94F150
It will not fly if-The aircraft remains stationary and the treadmill simply rolls under the tires with no airspeed over the wings.
Mike
Mike
CM
New User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 0
Likes: 24
Originally Posted by 76supercab2
Do me a favor. Watch the video, post 3. Why is the plane able to move forward on the treadmill track? If it can move forward on the treadmill track, would air flow over the wing surface?
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,043
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by NJF350SD
I'm with Mike on this one. If the plane is stationary it will not fly as there is insufficient lift.
CM
CM
That becomes the main question. Will it remain stationary? Watch the video in post 3 and answer the two questions I posted in post 45.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 796
Likes: 1
From: KCMO
Originally Posted by xtrford
Newtons law.....if the treadmill is producing a force equal to the thrust of the engines, nothing happens, they cancel each other out. Since they are equal and the plane is basically stationary, there won't be airflow over the wings to produce lift. It's relatively simple......the plane won't take off.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 796
Likes: 1
From: KCMO
Originally Posted by Kwikkordead
I haven't seen the video. Don't need to. So I didn't vote.
Need a minumum airspeed over the wings to generate lift.
Groundspeed, wheelspeed, irrelevent. Airspeed is what counts.
Need a minumum airspeed over the wings to generate lift.
Groundspeed, wheelspeed, irrelevent. Airspeed is what counts.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,940
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by pchristman
Regardless of the amount of force supplied by the treadmll, the only force applied to the wheels is whatever negligible amount it takes to overcome the friction of the bearings. The treadmill only makes the wheels turn. None of this force (except the miniscule bearing load) is transmitted to the plane - unless, of course, the brakes are on.
I stand by that it won't fly UNLESS the thrust force is greater than the force applied to the plane by the treadmill wher it eventually will achieve enough airlow over the wings to create sufficient lift.
New User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 0
Likes: 24
Planes don't fly if they are still touching the ground or a treadmill.
They need airspeed AWAY from the ground to fly unless.............
There was a Huge set of fans blowing massive amounts of air over all the wings while the plane's wheels were on the treadmill and engine thrust was matched to the treadmill speed and have the Fan Air speed going over the wings matching 150 mph.
They need airspeed AWAY from the ground to fly unless.............
There was a Huge set of fans blowing massive amounts of air over all the wings while the plane's wheels were on the treadmill and engine thrust was matched to the treadmill speed and have the Fan Air speed going over the wings matching 150 mph.
Last edited by Mil1ion; Dec 14, 2007 at 05:58 PM.
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Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,743
Likes: 3
From: Peoria, IL
If the friction from the bearings was enough that it could create more force than the engines then planes wouldn't need brakes.
Bearings are considered frictionless for all but the most detailed calculations. So pretty much as soon as the engines are running and the brakes are let loose the plane will start moving forward, as the thrust from the engines work on the surrounding air, nothing else. The treadmill can spin as fast as it want's, all it is going to do is make the wheels spin faster, it will not keep the plane from moving.
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the videos linked to in this thread, and I haven't watched the Mythbusters episode yet either (it is saved on my DVR though). I am strictly basing this on my knowledge (I'm a Mechanical Engineer, and member of MENSA
)
Bearings are considered frictionless for all but the most detailed calculations. So pretty much as soon as the engines are running and the brakes are let loose the plane will start moving forward, as the thrust from the engines work on the surrounding air, nothing else. The treadmill can spin as fast as it want's, all it is going to do is make the wheels spin faster, it will not keep the plane from moving.
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the videos linked to in this thread, and I haven't watched the Mythbusters episode yet either (it is saved on my DVR though). I am strictly basing this on my knowledge (I'm a Mechanical Engineer, and member of MENSA
)
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,288
Likes: 0
From: Leamington, Ontario
Originally Posted by Beerstalker
If the friction from the bearings was enough that it could create more force than the engines then planes wouldn't need brakes.
Bearings are considered frictionless for all but the most detailed calculations. So pretty much as soon as the engines are running and the brakes are let loose the plane will start moving forward, as the thrust from the engines work on the surrounding air, nothing else. The treadmill can spin as fast as it want's, all it is going to do is make the wheels spin faster, it will not keep the plane from moving.
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the videos linked to in this thread, and I haven't watched the Mythbusters episode yet either (it is saved on my DVR though). I am strictly basing this on my knowledge (I'm a Mechanical Engineer, and member of MENSA)
Bearings are considered frictionless for all but the most detailed calculations. So pretty much as soon as the engines are running and the brakes are let loose the plane will start moving forward, as the thrust from the engines work on the surrounding air, nothing else. The treadmill can spin as fast as it want's, all it is going to do is make the wheels spin faster, it will not keep the plane from moving.
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the videos linked to in this thread, and I haven't watched the Mythbusters episode yet either (it is saved on my DVR though). I am strictly basing this on my knowledge (I'm a Mechanical Engineer, and member of MENSA
)
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,043
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Beerstalker
If the friction from the bearings was enough that it could create more force than the engines then planes wouldn't need brakes.
Bearings are considered frictionless for all but the most detailed calculations. So pretty much as soon as the engines are running and the brakes are let loose the plane will start moving forward, as the thrust from the engines work on the surrounding air, nothing else. The treadmill can spin as fast as it want's, all it is going to do is make the wheels spin faster, it will not keep the plane from moving.
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the videos linked to in this thread, and I haven't watched the Mythbusters episode yet either (it is saved on my DVR though). I am strictly basing this on my knowledge (I'm a Mechanical Engineer, and member of MENSA)
Bearings are considered frictionless for all but the most detailed calculations. So pretty much as soon as the engines are running and the brakes are let loose the plane will start moving forward, as the thrust from the engines work on the surrounding air, nothing else. The treadmill can spin as fast as it want's, all it is going to do is make the wheels spin faster, it will not keep the plane from moving.
I haven't had a chance to watch any of the videos linked to in this thread, and I haven't watched the Mythbusters episode yet either (it is saved on my DVR though). I am strictly basing this on my knowledge (I'm a Mechanical Engineer, and member of MENSA
)
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,043
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Mil1ion
Planes don't fly if they are still touching the ground or a treadmill.
They need airspeed AWAY from the ground to fly unless.............
There was a Huge set of fans blowing massive amounts of air over all the wings while the plane's wheels were on the treadmill and engine thrust was matched to the treadmill speed and have the Fan Air speed going over the wings matching 150 mph.
They need airspeed AWAY from the ground to fly unless.............
There was a Huge set of fans blowing massive amounts of air over all the wings while the plane's wheels were on the treadmill and engine thrust was matched to the treadmill speed and have the Fan Air speed going over the wings matching 150 mph.
Thread Starter
|
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,004
Likes: 1
From: North of Boston MA
Originally Posted by 76supercab2
I'll save you the trouble. TDC LIED to us. That episode does NOT have POAT in it. Just parachute myths and can a non-pilot be talked down in an airplane. LAME-O!!!
I was asleep by the time they got to the rest of the parachute crap. I can't stand the new kids on there.....the chick is kinda cute but her voice make my eyes hurt.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,743
Likes: 3
From: Peoria, IL
Dang it, I just watched the episode and found out it didn't air. I checked out the Mythbusters site and rumor is they did it with an ultralight on a 1/4 mile conveyor runway. People are thinking that they may have decided to hold onto it and keep it for the next season's premiere, or the next viewer special that are both coming up in Jan (assuming the writers strike doesn't screw them up too).
Anyway in the forum at the Mythbusters site I found a link to this video (sorry if it was posted in here earlier I haven't watched them). A guy uses his sons remote control plane taped to the top of a matchbox car to show that the plane accelerates forward at the same rate no matter what the speed of the treadmill is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk
Anyway in the forum at the Mythbusters site I found a link to this video (sorry if it was posted in here earlier I haven't watched them). A guy uses his sons remote control plane taped to the top of a matchbox car to show that the plane accelerates forward at the same rate no matter what the speed of the treadmill is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk
Last edited by Beerstalker; Dec 14, 2007 at 08:02 PM.