Running 100% Ethanol
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 192
Likes: 1
Running 100% Ethanol
I've got a 94 F350 with a 460. I was wondering id anybody had looked into running 100% ethanol. I'm curious what mods may be required. I know it can eat up some rubber and plastic. Mods to fuel lines?
Just curious. Lots of advantages .
Would love to hear others ideas. I hate paying $3.00 per gallon while getting 10MPG.
A sharing of knowledge would be appreciated.
Mike
Just curious. Lots of advantages .
Would love to hear others ideas. I hate paying $3.00 per gallon while getting 10MPG.
A sharing of knowledge would be appreciated.
Mike
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,473
Likes: 4
From: Lafayette, IN
Ethanol has less energy per gallon than gasoline (read: even lower MPG), and the only reason it's cheaper right now is that it is heavily subsidized, by your tax dollars. You would have to totally reprogram your truck's ECM along with replacing all the non-compatible fuel system components.
Much of the mileage data now suggests that even though it's cheaper, the lower mileage you get more than wastes that price difference, so using gasoline is cheaper in the long run, especially once you factor in the cost of any mods you'd have to make.
Jason
Much of the mileage data now suggests that even though it's cheaper, the lower mileage you get more than wastes that price difference, so using gasoline is cheaper in the long run, especially once you factor in the cost of any mods you'd have to make.
Jason
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 893
Likes: 8
From: Lincoln, Nebraska
here e85 is 60-65 cents a gallon cheaper. so running e85 in my taurus is a lot cheaper. if you get 4 mpg less to break even you would have to pay 40 cents a gallon for it. right now i am getting about 22 city driving on e85 my sister wife her sable get about 16-18 city driving. so i see if it is at least 20 cents a gallon cheaper i will use it for sure maybe even if it is 10 cents cheaper since i dont see how i can get an extra 4 mpg in the city with it
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 893
Likes: 8
From: Lincoln, Nebraska
here e85 is 60-65 cents a gallon cheaper. so running e85 in my taurus is a lot cheaper. if you get 4 mpg less to break even you would have to pay 40 cents a gallon less for it. right now i am getting about 22 city and short highway driving on e85 my sister with her sable get about 16-18 city driving. so i see if it is at least 20 cents a gallon cheaper i will use it for sure maybe even if it is 10 cents cheaper since i dont see how i can get an extra 4 mpg in the city with it
Freshman User
Joined: Sep 2006
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I have 'heard' of alot of people experiemnting with 50% regular-50% E-85. They ramped up 'slow' so they could tell IF they were having problems. That saved them some in gas cost and could track any milage issues too. When E-10 or 15 came out way back when I had a 75 Taurus (6 cyl.)and always got better mileage on it vs regular by a mile or two. NOW they say its the other way around,,,I GUESS each car is different!! NO issues back then even when people were bitching about fuel filters etc. ,,cant say I ever had that!!
IF ethanol is really all that bad and power less then why are racers running it?? Drag and circle track?? Something doesnt add up!!
IF ethanol is really all that bad and power less then why are racers running it?? Drag and circle track?? Something doesnt add up!!
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,473
Likes: 4
From: Lafayette, IN
Racers run it because it has high anti-knock properties, so they can run higher compression ratios.
It's bad not as a fuel in and of itself, it's bad because it's a waste of resources to make it.
Jason
It's bad not as a fuel in and of itself, it's bad because it's a waste of resources to make it.
Jason
Super Moderator
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,475
Likes: 2,800
There are safety issues (like it goes up easier and you can't see the flame) and water absorption problems with 100% ethanol.
Yea, the racers use it with high compression and they dump it into the cylinder with a 1" hose because it will burn at those ratios where gas needs 14.7 : 1 or so to burn. So yes, you can take a fuel that is 70-80% as powerful as gasoline but use 3 times as much and make more power.
Yea, the racers use it with high compression and they dump it into the cylinder with a 1" hose because it will burn at those ratios where gas needs 14.7 : 1 or so to burn. So yes, you can take a fuel that is 70-80% as powerful as gasoline but use 3 times as much and make more power.
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Freshman User
Joined: Oct 2007
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Originally Posted by jroehl
Racers run it because it has high anti-knock properties, so they can run higher compression ratios.
It's bad not as a fuel in and of itself, it's bad because it's a waste of resources to make it.
Jason
It's bad not as a fuel in and of itself, it's bad because it's a waste of resources to make it.
Jason
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Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,473
Likes: 4
From: Lafayette, IN
It's not about OPEC...it's that it takes more energy to produce it than it contains, plus it shifts some of our agriculture from food production to fuel production.
This really isn't the place (no politics and the like are allowed outside ClubFTE) to debate the hows and whys of ethanol, I just gave my opinion that it's a raw deal.
Jason
This really isn't the place (no politics and the like are allowed outside ClubFTE) to debate the hows and whys of ethanol, I just gave my opinion that it's a raw deal.
Jason
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 309
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From: Owensboro, KY
I use E85 in our Dodge Caravan whenever I can find it. It's getting to be more widespread, and that's a good thing. Even with the mileage drop-off, in most places the price offsets that.
Gen 1, I am considering installing one of the Flex-Tek systems (which enables any fuel-injected vehicle to use E85) in my truck. Of course, that's pending a general overhaul. I think you can get a F-T system to work with your 460. Not 100% sure on that. If you are planning to do it, perhaps you can work with the tuning and increase your mileage.
Personal opinion here: The automakers could make flex-fuel vehicles get better mileage with E85 if they'd just tune them properly or allow for automatic adjustments dependent upon the fuel. But they haven't had their hand forced yet
Gen 1, I am considering installing one of the Flex-Tek systems (which enables any fuel-injected vehicle to use E85) in my truck. Of course, that's pending a general overhaul. I think you can get a F-T system to work with your 460. Not 100% sure on that. If you are planning to do it, perhaps you can work with the tuning and increase your mileage.
Personal opinion here: The automakers could make flex-fuel vehicles get better mileage with E85 if they'd just tune them properly or allow for automatic adjustments dependent upon the fuel. But they haven't had their hand forced yet
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,473
Likes: 4
From: Lafayette, IN
Well, as long as you remember it's only an opinion, because if an automaker could tune a flex-fuel vehicle to get better gas mileage with E85, they could tune it for better mileage with gasoline. The problem is that E85 only has about 70-75% of the energy per gallon that gasoline does, so there will always be that limitation.
Ethanol is fine as an anti-knock/oxygenate additive, but it's lousy as an energy source for a vehicle. It's just another environmental feel-good short-sighted "solution".
By what I heard in elementary school in the late '70s/early '80s, our country should be running entirely on wind, solar and hydro-electric power. Those together total maybe 10% of our power production in this country. E85 is no different--it's piddle power.
Jason
Ethanol is fine as an anti-knock/oxygenate additive, but it's lousy as an energy source for a vehicle. It's just another environmental feel-good short-sighted "solution".
By what I heard in elementary school in the late '70s/early '80s, our country should be running entirely on wind, solar and hydro-electric power. Those together total maybe 10% of our power production in this country. E85 is no different--it's piddle power.
Jason
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Nov 2007
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Lots of interesting thoughts. As far as cost. My thought was making it myself for my use. Goverment allows up to 10,000 gallons/ yr. I won't be making anywhere near that much. I've researched may sites on the net.
I appreciate the discussion of various pro's and cons. what I have not seen in my surfing is a discussion or comments by someone who has actually run a 90's F series truck and what mods they felt were needed.
The tune is not an issue. For a couple hundred bucks I can get a programable chip and retun the truck. My son and I run modified Gen 1 lightnings at the drag strips in town and have both Dyno tuned. I'm ok with having to change filters a few times while it is cleaning out the fuel system.
I'm curious what if any seals or hoses ethonal will eat away.
I appreciate the discussion of various pro's and cons. what I have not seen in my surfing is a discussion or comments by someone who has actually run a 90's F series truck and what mods they felt were needed.
The tune is not an issue. For a couple hundred bucks I can get a programable chip and retun the truck. My son and I run modified Gen 1 lightnings at the drag strips in town and have both Dyno tuned. I'm ok with having to change filters a few times while it is cleaning out the fuel system.
I'm curious what if any seals or hoses ethonal will eat away.
Freshman User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 37
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Originally Posted by jroehl
It's not about OPEC...it's that it takes more energy to produce it than it contains, plus it shifts some of our agriculture from food production to fuel production.
This really isn't the place (no politics and the like are allowed outside ClubFTE) to debate the hows and whys of ethanol, I just gave my opinion that it's a raw deal.
Jason
This really isn't the place (no politics and the like are allowed outside ClubFTE) to debate the hows and whys of ethanol, I just gave my opinion that it's a raw deal.
Jason
If politics aren't allowed here then I would ask you to keep your socio-political opinions to yourself...
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,049
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From: Perry Georgia
I have found using a gallon or 2 in a full tank of gas helps clean the fuel system and is a lot cheaper than the pints of fuel treatment (STP, TECHRON ECT) that sell for a couple of dollars and does as good or better job on buildup in the fuel system.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,473
Likes: 4
From: Lafayette, IN
Originally Posted by airmetdave
Cheap hydrocarbons have made you dependent on one way of seeing things...
If politics aren't allowed here then I would ask you to keep your socio-political opinions to yourself...
Jason