http://www.ocregister.com/news/viers...fire-emergency

 

i really can not even find words to respond or to describe how stupid this is.

makes one wonder about the potential problems that may arise from private toll companies. because we all know how good and attention to detail our politicians are when it comes to making deals.

but then again, it seems at least in this story, problems can arise from state tolls also.

to add....it reminds me of when i was stationed in london. the US had an agreement with the UK on congestion and toll charges for US government official use vehicles, including the military. well, the city of london stated they did not have to abide by the agreement and continued to rack up congestion charges against everyone, i know for sure us (the Navy). we owed maybe over $10k in congestion charges and there were vehicle seizure notices out for our vehicles also, we were instructed to never park them off the base or then they could get seized.

 

Only in Cali? Not for long. I was at a Tranasportation Conferance last month and these Private/ Public Partnerships as they prefer to call them were the hottest topic.
The road building industry is spending millions to "encourage" goverment agencies across the country that these types of projects are the cure to all of thier traffic woes. Be afraid, be very afraid.......

 

Maybe I can't read, but it is unclear to me as to what the truck was doing--going to a fire or a funeral.

IMO, Fire, no toll, funeral, pay up.

 

Private toll roads are not a new concept, nor are they limited to California. The road to Dulles is private, as is one in Indiana and some others.

Private companies can sometimes better put together the funding required to build a new highway and their ROI is the ability to collect tolls. IIRC the road to Dulles gives you the option of paying the toll on the private road or taking the more congested free road.

In some states, including mine, the governments are considering selling the existing highways to private companies. It gives the state a big chunk of money, relieves the state of a lot of workers yet still allows control of the toll rates.

Not necessarily a bad idea.

Chasing a fire department for the toll and fine seems crazy unless that is addressed in the contract.

 

i beleive that roads should be public right of ways and not controlled by a private company.

next thing we know the defense department will be contracted out, oh wait, some of it already has.

the government has taken money from taxpayers for something, then turn around and sold it, those profits should be refunded to taxpayers then, the government should not be in the profit making business and using taxpayers funds for it.

how much will states reduce taxes when they get rid of the roads? i seriously doubt they will.

i am against the whole toll thing anyway, fine for some things but it is too prevailent right now in my opinion. where were all these tolls when the highways were first built in the first place? the gov seemed to manage then just fine.

more and more like 1984 around here.

 

If they did it in Europe you'd think it was brilliant. Oh yeah, they do it in Europe.

Some of the private roads were built with private money. These are roads that wouldn't have been built otherwise. Same thing with many turnpikes - the MA turnpike was built originally with bonds that wouldn't have been possible without tolls to repay them.

Why can't private companies be in the road business? There is absolutely no reason why not. If you don't want to take the private or toll road, there are always other routes available to you - take one of them. My time is worth money - I'll pay the toll in many or most cases. I paid many a $9 toll to cross the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel rather than take the 100 mile or so route around.

If tolls keep traffic down and allow me a faster ride to work, then I am all ni favor of them. Maybe peak-hour or congestion pricing isn't such a bad idea after all.

 

So what do you think of this deal that happened in Ontario?

History


Highway 407 was the eighth 400-Series Highway planned for Ontario, to serve as a bypass of Highway 401 through Toronto and to serve as a major east-west corridor across the sprawling suburbs to the north of the city. Land adjacent to a hydro corridor was acquired for Highway 407 in the 1960s but it sat vacant for almost thirty years, because the Ontario government opted instead to widen Highway 401 to a 14-lane collector-express system. The Highway 401 expansion project was considered a success and construction of Highway 407 was put on hold until 1987.

The first section was completed in 1987 as a temporary routing for Highway 403 in Mississauga and Oakville (after a change in plans, this segment would be permanently part of Highway 403). The next phase to begin construction was a short connector between Highway 427 and Highway 400, and the upgrading of Highway 7 through Richmond Hill to a six-lane grade-separated expressway, which although originally planned to become incorporated into the 407 routing, today runs parallel to the highway. In addition, cross-street overpasses and ramps for the interchange connections to Highway 427 and Highway 400, and modifications to accommodate the highway at the Highway 403/QEW interchange, were constructed by the Ministry of Transportation in the early 1990s.

To construct the highway more quickly and to save much-needed provincial funds during an economic recession, the provincial government resorted to a public-private partnership to facilitate construction of the highway. Two firms bid on the project, with Canadian Highways International Corporation being selected as the operator of the highway. Financing for the highway would be paid by user tolls lasting 35 years, after which it would return to the provincial system as a typical, un-tolled 400-Series Highway.

The highway opened in 1997, and highway cost roughly $1.6 billion. The published $1.6 billion dollar cost does not take into account more than $100 billion dollars spent since the early 1970s acquiring the land that it sits on. (Ontario Government Hansard - Wednesday 21 October 1998 - 1520, 1550. Estimates range from $104-107 billion dollars total taxpayer investment as of March 31, 1998)

When Highway 407 finally opened in 1997, tolls were not charged for a month to allow motorists to test-drive the freeway.

As part of a controversial plan to finance revenue for tax cuts, the highway was sold to a conglomerate of private companies in 1999 for $3.1 billion. The deal included an unprecedented 99-year lease agreement, unlimited control of the highway and its tolls. The government also may not build any nearby freeway which might potentially compete with 407. However, the Government maintained the ability to build a light transit system along the 407 right of way.

When purchased, the highway ran from the junction of Highway 403 in Mississauga to Markham Road in Markham. Extensions westward to the Queen Elizabeth Way and eastward to Highway 7 and Brock Road in Pickering were constructed by the corporation, as mandated in the lease agreement. Both of these extensions were not part of the original Highway 407 plans, rather, these protected corridors were to be future, non-tolled 400-Series highways. The westward extension from Highway 403 in Mississauga to the Queen Elizabeth Way in Burlington was initially intended to be an extension of Highway 403. (Highway 407 was originally slated to assume the temporary routing for Highway 403 in Mississauga-Oakville and end at the QEW.)

Today, the highway is valued at over $10 billion, and the Progressive Conservative party has been heavily criticized for the poor terms of sale including underestimating the value of the road. Many "905ers" in the rapidly growing Greater Toronto Area who had been expecting to be served by a much-needed non-tolled Highway 407 consider its sale and skyrocketing toll rates a sellout and this significantly eroded the Conservatives' formerly strong support base in that region. The CAA considered the 407 contract a fiasco and adopted a platform where they would not support the tolling of any new or existing highways. Even though the succeeding Liberal government have been unsuccessful in their attempts at legal action against the 407 ETR operators, the contract still reflected badly upon the opposition Conservatives who defended it. Current Conservative leader John Tory has distanced himself from his predecessors on this issue and has said that he would not have sold Highway 407 if he had been Premier.

The company, known as 407 International Inc. is owned by a consortium comprised of Cintra Concesiones de Infraestructuras de Transporte (major shareholder) from Spain, Macquarie Infrastructure Group, and Montreal-based engineering firm SNC-Lavalin.

 

They are talking about doing this public/private highway building in Arizona. I was reading an article in the paper a few weeks ago about this topic. Maybe if their toll booths were on fire & the fire dept didn't respond maybe they would change there stand next time.

 

In Nj emergency vehicles on the New Jersey Turnpike are given "pink cards" which substitute the regular toll ticket.

They are always issued, under all circumstances. The officer had only to fill the card out with the PD/vehicle info then return it to the toll taker.

The only funny part about my story occured when I was empolyed as a municipal police officer.

Our town had a Turnpike exit that connected to a major state highway within the town borders.

Whenever we attempted to stop a violator on the state road and the violator went through the toll we would not have time to stop and get a ticket. The turnpike personnel would get all bent out of shape and either send a toll taker out to the MV stop with a ticket (and an attitude) or they would call our HQ BIT@#ing we evaded the toll.

Our guys NEVER forgot to get a "pink card" when we returned to exit the Pike.

On some occassions we would be struggling with a drunk or unruly driver and the toll taker would stride up to the scene and attempt to hand it to the officer immediately. SOME had to be told to leave the scene.

Toll roads have some funny rules.

 

that is about one of the dumbest responses i have read, what in the hell does that have to do with anything? or are you just being a smartass? show me one post i have made where i have stated every single thing europe does is better than here in america. i can show you threads where i stated i hated things about the place, can you show me where i stated every thing was better?

is the fear of having a "new idea" bothersome to you? did you know i worked with the british military on incorporating some of their security techniques into our own? does that offend you? does it offend you we are now operating a swedish submarine on lease because it is superious in shallow water coastal defense? does any new idea that orginates outside the US offend you?

if so, then i suggest that you stop using many of the things we use now, including the constitution in which the concept of did not orginate in the US.

a private road is hardly the same as the government selling a previous tax payer paid public road which is what i was speaking about.

 

Woah, take a pill, it was just a smartass comment. But apparently it touched a nerve. If I had nothing better to do though I could find many threads where you talk about how great society is over there compared to here. But I do have better things to do.

I have absolutely no fear of new ideas. In fact, I support many new ideas as I stated in my post - privately built/funded/operated roads can save my state money, keep the gas taxes down and the only ones who pay are those who use it. I also said I support peak hour pricing such as that used in London to keep traffic down.

No, I didn't know what you did with the British military but I can say it really has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion of road funding or private road ownership. I've got a hell of a lot more military experience than you do so I am quite familiar with US/European/NATO etc cooperation and have been intimately involved with it over the last 23 years - again, not that it has anything to do with this thread.

 

ok, pill took . i talk about things they do that are successful over there in which we could apply over here. things like mass transit for example. plus i talk about things over there that are better for whatever reason, like their violent crime rate is way lower than ours or other quality of life issues.

i can also speak and have spoken about how screwed up some of their policies are. their medical system i speak of often as being inferior to ours, their self preservation when it comes to defense, their liberal policies (not all but most), and others.

maybe you have just not been part of those threads, but i do critize europe and i am not fond of the eu, especially when it comes to regional matters (bosnia comes to mind).

but i do not say everything is great or better, but when subjects come up, i will point out places that have had or does not have the problme and point out what they are doing or did about it. i see nothing wrong with doing that.


i do not have any problem with private roads. i was just refering to the selling off public roads that were paid for by public funds. if a company wants to build something private, by all means do it. but do not push emmient domain to take my or someone elses property to do it. also i do beleive that with private roads, it gives the gov less incentive to build roads in which are needed, maybe not now but in the future. plus any legalities involved may also prevent the gov from building roads that even the public overwhelmingly supports because of some poorly worded contract signed 50 years ago.

that to me gives more power to private companies than to the public in which in my opinion is not right.

 

Bf250 cheered for the euro-trash terrorists in 'Die Hard' and 'Die Hard with a Vengeance'.....

 

ya'll no whats sad? the fire dept might say heck with it we aint goin down that road,a car will catch fire then they'll sue the fire dept