I purchased a 96 with the 300 in it a while ago. I was experiencing the stalling and rough idling after being warmed up that many have claimed is caused by the EGR. As part of a total tune-up package I bypassed the EGR and kept getting a CEL. No matter what I did the CEL kept coming back. When I bought the truck it ran real rough and got lousy mileage. The truck purrs now and I get an average 22 MPG.

The CEL was bugging me so I hooked the EGR back up. The CEL went away and I did not get the rough idle and stalling problem back either. My conclusion is that the EGR does not effect the idle on a properly tuned engine. If the EGR bypass helps, you should probably be looking a little deeper into the tune of your engine.

Comments?

HL

 

I did the EGR block off plate last year. I consistently get a 34 code, which is EGR out of specs. So the computer knows. I also cleaned my plenum this weekend and it was gunked up real bad. I think that's because of the EGR routing all of the exhaust gas through it. I just don't think that running exhaust gas through the intake is good. I'll be watching to see how long it takes for the plenum to get dirty with the EGR blocked off. I'll post a message in few months.

P.S. I noticed very little if any perfomance change with or without the EGR.

 

Hi there, Howard - welcome to FTE!

Not that I'll ever claim it's the end-all, be all fix, but you seem to be missing two key points, and probably should not have tried the EGR fix you did.

First, your description of symptoms is actually NOT what most posts claim the EGR 'fix' gets rid of.

Second, "bypassing" the EGR wouldn not be the 'fix' anyway. The fix was to block it off - but even that doesn't matter since you seem to have used the 'fix' for the wrong symptoms.

Glad you figured out how to tune up your engine though, that's always a great thing to get good at.

Since you ask for comments you seem to either be looking for some type of fight (hey, I bet you're not, but then with so little info in it, who knows?), or you're asking us to critique your skills as a helpful resource. I'm not sure about the others, but I'd only ask that next time you not give us such an empty post. Generally people list exactly what truck they have, then go on to inform people of what actually 'fixed' their symptoms around here. Listing it as a "1996 Ford" just doesn't cut it.

Give us some more info on what actually 'fixed' your truck. We're always looking for new ideas on what to tweak or 'tune up'.

Best,

 

To clarify:

I have a 1996 Ford F150 with a 4.9L in it. We bought the truck with 160,000 km it ran like crap. The dealer spent a couple of days working on it but couldn't get it to run much better. They changed fuel filter and PCV valve. They also did a motorvac to clean the carbon out. I hinted that it may need a tune-up but their engine analyser said that tune was alright.

I gave up on them and started with the repairs myself. My interpretation of the EGR disconnection was that it would cure the problem of stalling or rough idling after the engine had warmed up. My truck would either stall, or run very rough with lots of smoke, when pulling up to a light after a good run. I pulled the vaccuum line off the EGR and the rough idling went away. I got a CEL but the truck ran much better. A couple weeks later I proceeded to give it a tune-up. I changed out everything from the TFI ignition module down to the plugs. Used stock ford parts except for the MSD ignition coil and Blue Streak plug wires. This brought my mileage up from 8.8 mpg to 22 mpg.

We ran the truck for a while like this but the CEL was bugging me. I decided to plug the vaccuum line back in and see if the operational EGR would make much difference. The CEL went away and I can't tell any difference in performance or mileage.

If my understanding of disabling the EGR is incorrect could someone please tell me what this does do for me? I see no advantage in disbling the EGR now that my engine is running properly. I pull a stock trailer with this truck and it holds it's own on the hills. Not bad for 170,000 km.

HL

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 16-Sep-02 AT 08:03 PM (EST)]Well, you kinda forgot to list the tranny and 4x2 or 4x4, and that kind of stuff matters. But you did a nice job of explaining yourself even though you played with a mess of stuff, and it is a bit impossible to narrow down just what exactly 'did' your fix - and that's the kind of stuff we like around here (i.e. specifics, or the 'real' truth). While I would almost bet it might have been your TFI ignition module, or the OEM TFI coil, with all that messing around under there, there is the possibility it was some sort of loose wire or poor connection, too. At this point we probably won't know.

It also matters that you have probably the most 'different' 4.9 out there in that you have OBD-II, and probably mass-air.

The EGR block off was/is for 4.9's with a manual transmission (and you know, I really think the most complaints came from circa-1993 users like myself - still don't know what the difference was between those years and others) that would drop RPM's from stop signs unless gassed-through. This was not after a particularly high-speed run, nor was it a 'rough-idle' condition.

Otherwise most of us have no claims that it is a 'fix' for anyone else. In truth we all probably would rather have avoided the 'fix', because why play with anything like that at all? But just like I saw when I first started coming to FTE, a lot of people have replaced a lot of things with little effect on these engines. But did that teach me? Heck no - I went and replaced (copying from the list in my gallery) the plugs, coil, wires, cap, rotor, IAC valve, ignition control module, coolant temp. sensor, fuel pressure regulator, fuel and air filters, put in a MSD-6A ignition, and even changed the timing (tried advancing it - it is still at about 11 or 12 DBTDC, and I use premium gas). I checked all the vacuum lines, and am in the process of changing them all anyway.

I've used a bunch of the highest quality in-tank fuel system cleaners, (and still recommend Chevron Techron, but there's Sea Foam in there right now), and cleaned out the throttle body and air plenum with BG's Air Intake Cleaner (highly recommended - reports are that the air plenums do get tons of gunk in 'em, and that's probably due to the EGR - but this still isn't a reason to play with your EGR). And I know that many other I-6 users have done the same, plus some.

Most all of this was done before I blocked off the EGR, but that was the only 'fix' for the condition faced. There's only so much money one can throw at these things, and until someone comes up with a definitive 'fix' for the problem, the 'fix' that *Ford* mechanics use themselves is what I'll go with. (Ford mechanics apparently only put a wad of tin foil in the main EGR tube instead of creating a plate to restrict or block off the EGR flow - I guess it amounts to the same thing, save for the slightly larger volume the EGR port area can add to the plenum, which would probably slightly affect the overall vacuum within the system when the EGR is open).

Well, um, hope that helps you understand what you are, or are not, looking for.

Best,

 

Hey Gamma Driver,
Good points, but lighten up man. He's a newbie.
Whatever he did made his truck run better, no need to criticize that.
Chill out and go for a beer.

 

But, um, he posted in a manner suggesting there was another fix - simply telling people that without actually naming the fix isn't what these boards are about. Not sure if you noticed, but I was both trying to help him understand his truck, and help us understand (by asking for clarification) a fix he was claiming we should do. Please feel free to point out the place where I criticized him fixing his own truck - I hope to not repeat that mistake if I am guilty of it.

Thanks though, maybe I will just go and get a beer.

Best,

 

>Well, you kinda forgot to list the tranny and 4x2 or 4x4,
>and that kind of stuff matters. But you did a nice job of
>explaining yourself even though you played with a mess of
>stuff, and it is a bit impossible to narrow down just what
>exactly 'did' your fix

Gamma Driver:

I disabled the EGR and it ran smooth. I reconnected the EGR and it ran like crap. I disconnected the EGR and it ran good again. Not too hard to figure out what the fix was. The tune-up and changeout of ignition parts was not until after I had determined that the disabled EGR made the truck run smooth. The tune-up increased the MPG but did little to the way the engine actually ideled or ran.

After the tune-up and all the new parts the effect of the disabled EGR was no longer there. To me that means that with a properly tuned engine the EGR fix wasn't doing anything for me; with a poorly tuned engine the EGR fix made the engine run smooth. In otherwords there is no need for disabling the EGR if the engine is properly tuned.

Does that not make sense?

HL

 

Hey, I'm not going to argue with your logic. I think I'm probably just missing something in the reading of your posts, and that would be a problem on my part. Based on so many others' experiences, or posts here, our versions of 'tune ups' did not cure the problems we had/have. I'm still not clear on what you are suggesting we do (the word 'tune up' does not really point to a specific thing to change or adjust), and your list (of parts changed) doesn't seem to include anything out of the ordinary (in other words, nothing that most of the rest of us haven't already tried).

But let's just leave it at that. Personally I don't believe you found a 'fix' for the problem you seem to have misinterpreted as being the problem you have, but that you did find a fix for the problem your truck was having (and they do seem to be two different symptoms). I can't really use the information you seem to think you are giving us, but I would like to - I just don't see the connection between your fix and the EGR problem/fix other people have posted about. Your testing did rule out the EGR as a problem (for the truck running like crap), and that's a good thing. But it doesn't support the blanket statement that the ruling out of the EGR for a 4.9 running like crap is the fix for what many of us have used the block-off plates for, and that's what I thought your were trying to push (allbeit unclearly).

Sorry for misunderstanding what you actually were trying to convey.

Best,

 

When I disabled the EGR on my truck it definitely fixed the problem and made my truck run good, great in fact. The replacement of the ignition parts after brought up the gas mileage. In my case, if I had changed out the ignition parts first I am sure that I would not have seen any change with disabling the EGR (i.e., I do not see a change now). For me a good tune-up was the fix, not the EGR disabling.

I am sure that there are people out there, many people in fact that will definitely benefit from disabling the EGR, I'm just not one of them.

What I was trying to say originally was that there is a possibility that other people may have disabled their EGR, as I did to solve the problem, when the EGR was not the cause of the problem, a poorly tuned engine was. As in my case they gave similar results.

If your truck will run good with the EGR operating then why disable it? I prefer not to pollute the environment if I can help it.

HL

 

Hi, I have to add my two cents worth to this post. Hold on a sec while I get my soap box, Ah that's better, and no for the disclaimer.
These observations have been formed over the last months that I have been reading and posting on this board and are generic in nature so don't take offence at them.:* Guys get yourselves a MANUAL ON FORDS.
There seems to be an abundance of people who fix first then read the manual. By that I mean they read the posts on this board looking for an answer for a problem ,( as well they should) and then attempt the suggested fix and can't even find the part they are attempting to fix. In reallity they should note the symptoms and do some leg work to find the answer. Take the ERG block off posts. Person "A" has a problem with a rough running engine and starts looking at the posts and reads all the "Disconect the EGR valve and it will run OK" posts and the first thing he does is just that,( without having found the plug with no electrode ) Having never pulled a plug, looked at the dist cap, rotor and wires or consulted a manual, the internet or God forbid the town Library.
You will never learn anything that way. Another example is the " How do you adjust the valves " If one had a manual you would find the answer in minutes as well as finding how much torque to use and that there were two different types of rocker arms used over the years, now you have learned somthing. I know money is tight but a manual on Fords is only about $15 and they use Ford manuals as a basis. Ebay is full of them, I got a 92 Ford service manual for my 90 4.9 EFI on CD for $12. At 19 I built my own car, a 1948 Ford 5 window coupe with a 389 Pontiac and an open drive shaft ( early fords used a encloed torque tube rear)and a 56 Ford wagon rear with 4-11 gears. I worked in a drug store for the money to build it and wasn't afraid to experiment with the engine.BUT FIRST I read all that I could find on the Pontiac engine and engine swaps , being 1965 there were no emmisions laws to worry about. The First thing one should do is get a manual and sit and read through it, NO not the whole thing
One more thing I have noticed is that some of the posters are trying to get an F-150 to do 10 flat at the strip, never happen. You can change all the cams , carbs and exhaust systems you want and will gain SOME HP and better performance but it isn't going to keep your passenger pinned in his as he reaches for the ash tray. In my day my friends had cars that would do that, but saddly not in this day or age, I fear that is gone forever. If you really want a truck that will do that with a 4.9 , it won't be a 4.9 six when your finished but will have cost plenty to bore, ballance, port, mill the head , change all manifolds get a holly double pumper and up grade the ignition.You will have a really rotten street machine but a great drag machine.Been there and done that. Now I have to get off this box before I get stoned by the readership besides the box is starting to sag.


Bob/stractor

 

Amen, brother.

 

I agree completely. I did exactly like you said and took the easy way out. I didn't look at my truck close enough to find the real problem before I acted. I hope a few others have learned from all this.

HL

 

Let me know if a EGR valve could be my problem I have a rough idle and the code reader indicates a miss in # 1 cylinder I am leaning towards a bad injector since I have given it a complete tune up. my miss comes and goes when I rev it up the miss goes away Do I need to change my fuel filter I have ran fuel injection cleaner through my fuel system in the fuel rail as well as through the intake system. If I have to replace one injector I might as well replace all 6 of them any help would be appreciated!

 

If you didn't get a EGR code, I wouldn't suspect the EGR valve, I've learned to trust my computer. A shop would recommend ALL injectors, but, since they cost $35 -$70 each, I'd try to do just the bad one. But like the previous post was saying, check out the basics, find out what the other variables are. For example, check all cylinders, examine the plugs, do a compression check, listen to the injectors (touch a screwdriver to them, put your ear on the handle and listen for the clicking) to determine if its ignition, fuel or mechanical. Get the ohm meter out, if only one or two plugs look bad, make sure your wires are good (even if new)as well as the plugs (I had a plug with a broken core down inside the porcelin, it arced and worked but only at bout 50%)

For me, I always imagine the worst and end up doing alot of extra work and replacing alot of parts whenever my truck runs bad (some of that's OK, but spending alot of $$ for nothing isn't.) These guys on this site have good judgement, and that's why I appreciate the message about doing your homework, checking out the manuals (I use 3!)and starting with the basics. This site has helped me greatly. Because I'm by myself on ALL mechanic jobs and I know what its like to run out of ideas and have no help on the horizon.

88 F150 I-6, 201,000 miles,
running fantastic
never paid a mechanics bill except for front alignments