Empty ("Dry"?) Filter Upon Change ...
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: VA/USA
Empty ("Dry"?) Filter Upon Change ...
I don't believe I've seen this before in the 30+ years I've been doing oil changes - my filter was dry ... empty of oil this morning during its change. What is this, a bad drainback valve??
~*WAS NOT A MOTORCRAFT PRODUCT*~ Though the new one this morning was/IS!.
Thx,
glenn ...
Filter being replaced was an Advance Auto TotalGrip
~*WAS NOT A MOTORCRAFT PRODUCT*~ Though the new one this morning was/IS!.
Thx,
glenn ...
Filter being replaced was an Advance Auto TotalGrip
Last edited by TOUGHLover; Oct 19, 2007 at 11:03 AM.
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: VA/USA
Originally Posted by jimandmandy
Ill bet that Advance Auto TotalGrip was a house-branded Fram (Honeywell).
Jim
Jim
Interesting how this occurs (if it is indeed a faulty anti-drainback valve [?] - there was no evidence of leakage on/around the filter) - considering that the filter is mounted at an approximate 45 degree angle downwards (?). Are "we" suspecting this to be the cause of the situation (help me out here gang)? There's no chance the oil could be by-passing the entire filter ... could there!?!
If the filter was bad, I reckon I got what I paid for at Advance - I picked it up on a "Buy One/Get One" Promo
Last edited by TOUGHLover; Oct 19, 2007 at 03:02 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: VA/USA
Originally Posted by jimdandy
I must be missing something as I don't see how the filter could be at fault if the oil never reaches the filter, Fram clone or no. jd
There was "evidence", or traces ... residue, of oil having been in the filter (though come to think of it now, that would be the case from even before I installed the filter as I pre-fill my filters ... have for 30 years) - it's just that there was no real volume of oil as one would normally find upon removing it from the motor.
Thinking a 3rd time now, the small amount or residual oil seen in the bottom of the filter - it was dirty, not the clean oil that I poured in during the last change.
So, I suppose what I am asking is: would a faulty anti-drainback valve, or a bypass valve - IN the filter - cause this condition? Alternately, what else could/would cause the filter to be virtually/nearly empty upon removal??
Again, the filter was nearly "empty" (perhaps "dry" was a poor choice of wording) - not full of oil as would normally be found upon removal.
Last edited by TOUGHLover; Oct 20, 2007 at 09:35 AM.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,057
Likes: 424
From: Too close to Houston
I believe you're right in thinking it's the anti-drainback valve. Was it a while between when you drained the crankcase and removed the filter. I can't remember which vehicle it was, maybe a '81 Bronco with a 351M, but the filter was practically horizontal. (My '83 302 isn't much better) To change oil on that one I would sometimes dump the pan in the evening when the engine was warm and let it drip overnight. When I'd take the filter off the next morning it would be empty and I'd have a whole lot less mess to deal with.
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,851
Likes: 111
From: SW Va
Seems to me the problem is likely a faulty anti-drainback valve.
Because it seems to me, if the bypass was faulty & the filter was in a constant by-pass mode, but the anti-drainback valve was working, the filter would have been full of oil.
Seeing as how the filter is mounted in a 45 deg downward angle, a faulty anti-drainback valve, would let gravity empty it upon engne shutdown.
Because it seems to me, if the bypass was faulty & the filter was in a constant by-pass mode, but the anti-drainback valve was working, the filter would have been full of oil.
Seeing as how the filter is mounted in a 45 deg downward angle, a faulty anti-drainback valve, would let gravity empty it upon engne shutdown.
Trending Topics
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
From: "Garden State"
Originally Posted by jimandmandy
Ill bet that Advance Auto TotalGrip was a house-branded Fram (Honeywell).
Jim
Jim
Whimsey
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026
Brett Foote
5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time
Joe Kucinski
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: VA/USA
Originally Posted by whimsey
I understood the AA TotalGrip filters are made by Purolator. Essentially they are "similar" to the Purolator Premium oil filters but with a "grippy" red paint. The PP oil filters use a Nitrile ADBV. Not good for longevity but it should go the short haul, ie 3,000 miles. But the base Fram oil filter uses a Nitrile ADBV and from my experience it sucks from day one of installation. I cured my oil drainback dry start up noises by simply using Motorcraft oil filters on my Ford vehicles. And ironically at WalMart Motorcraft oil filters are less expensive than the base Fram oil filter.
Whimsey
Whimsey
I'm back to Motorcraft, and Advance Auto; "Thanks but NO THANKS"! You can keep your; Buy One Get One "Free".
Am still curious though if anything else (oil pump, clog/blockage, etc.) could have caused this??
Thx.
Last edited by TOUGHLover; Oct 22, 2007 at 09:32 AM.
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: VA/USA
QUOTE:I believe you're right in thinking it's the anti-drainback valve. Was it a while between when you drained the crankcase and removed the filter?
__________________
'00 F250, CC SWB 4x2, V-10.
'83 F100 SWB 4x2, 302 AOD.
No sir - I removed the filter first, first thing in the morning - cold - no warm-up (ambient/outside temp was approx. 70 degrees).
Thx,
glenn ...
__________________
'00 F250, CC SWB 4x2, V-10.
'83 F100 SWB 4x2, 302 AOD.
No sir - I removed the filter first, first thing in the morning - cold - no warm-up (ambient/outside temp was approx. 70 degrees).
Thx,
glenn ...
Last edited by TOUGHLover; Oct 22, 2007 at 11:21 AM.
MSEE
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,386
Likes: 35
From: Austin, TX
Typically you should run the motor for a while before changing the oil. This is good for a few reasons: 1) it gives the oil one last chance to collect any crud in the engine, 2) it prevents any crud in the oil from settling and refusing to drain out, and 3) the oil is thinner and drains out quicker. You just have to be careful not to burn your hands. I usually drain mine after the trip to the parts store and back after I buy the oil.
If the filter didn't have any oil in it after sitting overnight, then it sounds like the filter drained back. This is pretty typical for old filters, especially cheaper ones like Fram or parts-store brands. I almost always stick with Motorcraft filters; however I have had a couple of those drain back as well in the past. You can tell because the engine will knock really hard for a couple seconds when you start it first thing in the morning, then it smooths out.
If the filter didn't have any oil in it after sitting overnight, then it sounds like the filter drained back. This is pretty typical for old filters, especially cheaper ones like Fram or parts-store brands. I almost always stick with Motorcraft filters; however I have had a couple of those drain back as well in the past. You can tell because the engine will knock really hard for a couple seconds when you start it first thing in the morning, then it smooths out.
Last edited by fmc400; Oct 22, 2007 at 01:44 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: VA/USA
Originally Posted by fmc400
Typically you should run the motor for a while before changing the oil. This is good for a few reasons: 1) it gives the oil one last chance to collect any crud in the engine, 2) it prevents any crud in the oil from settling and refusing to drain out, and 3) the oil is thinner and drains out quicker. You just have to be careful not to burn your hands. I usually drain mine after the trip to the parts store and back after I buy the oil.
If the filter didn't have any oil in it after sitting overnight, then it sounds like the filter drained back. This is pretty typical for old filters, especially cheaper ones like Fram or parts-store brands. I almost always stick with Motorcraft filters; however I have had a couple of those drain back as well in the past. You can tell because the engine will knock really hard for a couple seconds when you start it first thing in the morning, then it smooths out.
If the filter didn't have any oil in it after sitting overnight, then it sounds like the filter drained back. This is pretty typical for old filters, especially cheaper ones like Fram or parts-store brands. I almost always stick with Motorcraft filters; however I have had a couple of those drain back as well in the past. You can tell because the engine will knock really hard for a couple seconds when you start it first thing in the morning, then it smooths out.
I don't ever recall - in over 30 years -and performing, I don't know, somewhere in the neighborhood of probably '500' (?) oil changes, seen this happen. At least I never recall it happening - though probably half or so of those changes were done in various garages I've worked in - and I either never thought about it - or just plain didn't know any better (wouldn't have known to be on the look-out for much less notice something such as this - so as to mention it to whomever [owner/boss/etc.]).
Last edited by TOUGHLover; Oct 22, 2007 at 03:20 PM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
I no longer drain them warm, unless the weather is very cold. I would rather have oil drip off the internal parts overnight to get more of it out. Also, modern multigrades flow out of the pan just fine when cool. Getting ones hands burned by touching an exhaust manifold while trying to loosen a filter is no fun (Ford 5.0 and Dodge 5.2).
The rubber grip stuff on the AA filter also screams Fram, since they use the same thing. I've not seen Purolator, or Purolator clones, like ProLine, with that feature.
Jim
The rubber grip stuff on the AA filter also screams Fram, since they use the same thing. I've not seen Purolator, or Purolator clones, like ProLine, with that feature.
Jim
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: VA/USA
Originally Posted by jimandmandy
I no longer drain them warm, unless the weather is very cold. I would rather have oil drip off the internal parts overnight to get more of it out. Also, modern multigrades flow out of the pan just fine when cool. Getting ones hands burned by touching an exhaust manifold while trying to loosen a filter is no fun (Ford 5.0 and Dodge 5.2).
Jim
Jim
from 7 years ago on my `99 Ranger (3.0 
) from the exhaust manifold. 
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 65,938
Likes: 1,432
From: Millersville, MD
Originally Posted by TOUGHLover
Hmm-sounds good to me! I still have a scar on my forearm from 7 years ago on my `99 Ranger (3.0 ) from the exhaust manifold.
from 7 years ago on my `99 Ranger (3.0 ) from the exhaust manifold.