410 buildup advice needed
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 962
Likes: 2
From: Collierville, TN
410 buildup advice needed
O.k., here's the plan. Any predictions about performance (HP, torque, idle, mileage, octane requirements) would be appreciated, as well as advice about relatively inexpensive improvements.
Block: 1969 360 FE, standard height, bored .030 over, standard oiling mods
Crank: 1U 428 (3.98" stroke, .010/.010 bearings)
cid: 416
Static compression ratio: 10.5:1
Heads: C8AE-H, 69 cc chambers
Valvetrain: stock with hardened seats
Intake: Edelbrock Performer #2105
Exhaust: Stan's 222Y tri-Y headers into duals w/ crossover
Pistons: Sterling 390 1.660" with .097" dish
Rods: 390/428 6.488"
Carb: Holley Street Avenger 570 or Ebock 600
Ignition: stock distrib with Pertronix Ignitor II and Flamethrower coil
Cam: Crower Baja Beast #16915
Timing set: roller chain
Head gasket: Fel-Pro (.041" compressed)
The engine will be going back into my 1969 F100 Ranger 2wd C6 with AC/ps/pb and will be used for light to medium towing and hauling. I haven't decided yet on whether to ditch the stock flex-fan for an electric unit, but I'm leaning that way. Also, is a gear reduction starter worth the extra money? I'm concerned about clearance and durability because of the headers. TIA for your help.
Block: 1969 360 FE, standard height, bored .030 over, standard oiling mods
Crank: 1U 428 (3.98" stroke, .010/.010 bearings)
cid: 416
Static compression ratio: 10.5:1
Heads: C8AE-H, 69 cc chambers
Valvetrain: stock with hardened seats
Intake: Edelbrock Performer #2105
Exhaust: Stan's 222Y tri-Y headers into duals w/ crossover
Pistons: Sterling 390 1.660" with .097" dish
Rods: 390/428 6.488"
Carb: Holley Street Avenger 570 or Ebock 600
Ignition: stock distrib with Pertronix Ignitor II and Flamethrower coil
Cam: Crower Baja Beast #16915
Timing set: roller chain
Head gasket: Fel-Pro (.041" compressed)
The engine will be going back into my 1969 F100 Ranger 2wd C6 with AC/ps/pb and will be used for light to medium towing and hauling. I haven't decided yet on whether to ditch the stock flex-fan for an electric unit, but I'm leaning that way. Also, is a gear reduction starter worth the extra money? I'm concerned about clearance and durability because of the headers. TIA for your help.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 8
From: Missouri
410 buildup advice needed
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 16-Oct-01 AT 07:30 PM (EST)[/font][p]About 475 ft lbs of torque and probably around 340HP is my guess. Might want to think about a bigger carb. That one is going to run out of breath at around 4,000. The street avengers look sweet. I just got my 770cfm a while back. Looks good and should outperform an edelbrock but being that you could almost buy 2 edels for the price of the holley it should. Are those pistons going to come up even with the deck or be slightly above? Could do the math but figure you already have. That sound like a good setup for a truck for either pulling or moderate performance. Almost forgot, your mileage I could not guess because your rear end ratio was not given. Even then I'm going to let someone else take a guess on that. You will definitely need premium. If your quench is too small you may need a little more than that to get a full timing advance. Anyways I don't think you're cutting too many corners. Those stans headers are pricey but well worth it from what I hear.
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 962
Likes: 2
From: Collierville, TN
410 buildup advice needed
Thanks. The pistons are going to be about .03 down the hole. I could get pistons that are .025 or .030 taller, but doing so would raise the already high CR by a lot. It's at 10.5:1 now, and going with standard taller pistons would bring it up to 11.5:1 or more. That's great for power, but I need to be able to tow on a hot August day here in the south, and I'm afraid that anything in the 11:1 and higher range would cause detonation even on 93 octane.
I scavenged three different cold air intake setups from various 80s and 90s Fords during a recent junkyard trip, and I hope to adapt one to my F100. I've also thought about having louvers cut into the hood to keep the temps down and the intake charge somewhat cooler, especially since the headers will be increasing the heat load a lot. Anyone else tried that?
My current gear ratio is 3.25:1. Eventually, I may go to some higher (numerical) gears and a posi unit, but I'm waiting to see how well she pulls with the new motor and existing gears before I decide. If I can uproot trees even with the 3.25's in there, I may just leave them.
karlsd a/k/a "ksd"
69 F100 Explorer 360/C6
I scavenged three different cold air intake setups from various 80s and 90s Fords during a recent junkyard trip, and I hope to adapt one to my F100. I've also thought about having louvers cut into the hood to keep the temps down and the intake charge somewhat cooler, especially since the headers will be increasing the heat load a lot. Anyone else tried that?
My current gear ratio is 3.25:1. Eventually, I may go to some higher (numerical) gears and a posi unit, but I'm waiting to see how well she pulls with the new motor and existing gears before I decide. If I can uproot trees even with the 3.25's in there, I may just leave them.
karlsd a/k/a "ksd"
69 F100 Explorer 360/C6
Junior User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
410 buildup advice needed
Karlsd, My desktop dyno says, with those heads,you will have a 11.5:1 compression ratio, not me, but computer says so, C.I.D of 416.
heres the numbers:
1) horseys: 422 @ 5,000 R.P.M
2) torque: 489 @ 3500
you can believe these numbers or not, just what my dyno says, I ran it with a 600 cfm carb.
and of course remember to take 17.2 percent of those figures away for every 5,000 feet in elevation ie(5k above sea level, ya got 350.26 horseys).
anyway, dunno if it is accurate or not, but with that setup, thats what she says
Justin
heres the numbers:
1) horseys: 422 @ 5,000 R.P.M
2) torque: 489 @ 3500
you can believe these numbers or not, just what my dyno says, I ran it with a 600 cfm carb.
and of course remember to take 17.2 percent of those figures away for every 5,000 feet in elevation ie(5k above sea level, ya got 350.26 horseys).
anyway, dunno if it is accurate or not, but with that setup, thats what she says
Justin
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 962
Likes: 2
From: Collierville, TN
410 buildup advice needed
Thanks. I think that the 11.5:1 CR assumes standard height, flat-top pistons, right? I adjusted for the fact that my planned pistons are .027" shorter than stock, and have a .097" dish.
I'd be thrilled with those numbers, of course, but expect somewhat less from the lower CR. Any idea how much HP is lost by dropping CR one full point?
karlsd a/k/a "ksd"
69 F100 Explorer 360/C6
I'd be thrilled with those numbers, of course, but expect somewhat less from the lower CR. Any idea how much HP is lost by dropping CR one full point?
karlsd a/k/a "ksd"
69 F100 Explorer 360/C6
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 8
From: Missouri
410 buildup advice needed
fordsnharleys, when you use the desktop dyno their idea of stock low performance heads flow much better than even CJ heads. I have some flow numbers of stock CJ heads posted a while back here. If you then change the valve size to the 390 size the numbers will more accurately reflect regular 390 heads. Getting 422HP from a 416 cu in FE is far from impossible but takes a little more than what is listed. I ran the dyno with the actual flow numbers from edel heads on a 390 and got 418HP just as edelbrock got so it can be a very good tool if you have all the info. For Karlsd you are going to be pushing it with that much compression.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 8
From: Missouri
410 buildup advice needed
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 18-Oct-01 AT 10:53 AM (EST) by BBB (moderator)[/font][p]FORD'S RULE!!!
Trending Topics
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 8
From: Missouri
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Top 6 Best Deals Available on New Fords & Lincolns Right Now
Brett Foote
This Hennessey Takes the Expedition Tremor's Off-Roading Capability to the Next Level
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Fords at 2026 Carlisle Ford Nationals
Joe Kucinski
3 Best / 3 Worst Parts of Modern Ford Ownership
Brett Foote
10 Amazing Upgrades That Solve Common Ford Truck Owner Headaches
Pouria Savadkouei
Every 2026 Ford Engine Explained
Brett Foote
10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,281
Likes: 18
From: Northern California
410 buildup advice needed
I'd polish the chambers and open them up to about 77+ cc's. this helps lower the CR and the smooth surface helps against pinging. I went to 80.5cc's on my C7AE-A's and ended up with a very smooth surface and unshrouded valves. Unshrouding the valves helps with low-lift breathing too.
Some mild porting will help too but don't hog them out, just remove casting flaws and exhaust humps.
I'd also block off the exhaust crossover thru the intake for a cooler charge.
Other than that, it's sounds like a great selection for mid-range towing power.
Some mild porting will help too but don't hog them out, just remove casting flaws and exhaust humps.
I'd also block off the exhaust crossover thru the intake for a cooler charge.
Other than that, it's sounds like a great selection for mid-range towing power.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 0
From: yes
410 buildup advice needed
over on the fordmuscle board there is a guy who ran his 410 on 87, that's with the factory compression ratio, and the 410 I bought I doubt the guy ever ran premium in it. I'd rather keep the high compression and get a water injection system anyways.
Tuned
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
From: Deatsville, AL
410 buildup advice needed
I've search for those CJ flow numbers and couldn't find them. Could you give me a time frame and/or topic.
Bob
'66 7 Litre, top loader, 3.25 Traction-lock, Sidewinder Intake, SCJ Exhaust
'88 F150 LWB 4x2, XLT Lariat, 302, 5 speed, 3.08
'99 Ranger, 4x2, 3.0, 5 speed, 3.73 posi
Bob
'66 7 Litre, top loader, 3.25 Traction-lock, Sidewinder Intake, SCJ Exhaust
'88 F150 LWB 4x2, XLT Lariat, 302, 5 speed, 3.08
'99 Ranger, 4x2, 3.0, 5 speed, 3.73 posi
Junior User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
410 buildup advice needed
KSD,
I'm running a 390 with the same intake and cam with a Holley 650, and Heddman long tube headers in a 69 F350, 4sp and 4:10 gears. It's a Chassic Mount MotorHome' scales in at just under 10,000 lbs. Over 10K once the wife gets it loaded. Tow a 3000 lb boat. Gets 7.5 to 8 mpg mostly foot hills and mountain driving in the Pacific NorthWest. Pulls like a freightrain.
Prior to the headers, cam and intake change this spring, on one perticular 10 mile strech of 6% grade it was 3rd gear on the floor to pull it a 50mph. Now 4th gear 60 to 65+ no problem.
I can see as how you should get 12 to 14mpg or better, depending on what you towing I think you'll be very happly with the 3:25's
DSD
69F350, 4sp390
I'm running a 390 with the same intake and cam with a Holley 650, and Heddman long tube headers in a 69 F350, 4sp and 4:10 gears. It's a Chassic Mount MotorHome' scales in at just under 10,000 lbs. Over 10K once the wife gets it loaded. Tow a 3000 lb boat. Gets 7.5 to 8 mpg mostly foot hills and mountain driving in the Pacific NorthWest. Pulls like a freightrain.
Prior to the headers, cam and intake change this spring, on one perticular 10 mile strech of 6% grade it was 3rd gear on the floor to pull it a 50mph. Now 4th gear 60 to 65+ no problem.
I can see as how you should get 12 to 14mpg or better, depending on what you towing I think you'll be very happly with the 3:25's
DSD
69F350, 4sp390
Junior User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
410 buildup advice needed
On the Dyno prog. I did run stock 390 size valves, and simulated heads with pocket porting, now on the dished pistons, I added 10 cc to the chamber vol, but I fogot to add for the gasket vol about another 7 or 8 cc, so heres the new compression ratio and output numbers after adding the gasket vol., and just for the fun of it, I will run heads with no porting.
1) hp went down to:369@4500
2)torque went down to:462@3500
and compression ratio is, 10.0:1, I added 17cc for the dished pistons, and 8.7 cc for the gasket volume, so yeah, my fault the first time, now all the info I gave the computer was accurate, and with stock heads.
now more realistic?
Justin
1) hp went down to:369@4500
2)torque went down to:462@3500
and compression ratio is, 10.0:1, I added 17cc for the dished pistons, and 8.7 cc for the gasket volume, so yeah, my fault the first time, now all the info I gave the computer was accurate, and with stock heads.
now more realistic?
Justin