Having installed my guages I'm now looking to lower my tranny temps. I' looking to replace my cooler with one from a 6.0. I also want to use a better tranny fluid. I've been researching the synthetics since I've heard that some conduct heat better. So far, they ALL say they help lower tranny temp but don't quantify it. Many have spec sheets on their products which specify viscosity, lubrication factor, break down temps, etc.. However none seem to specify thermal conductivity.

I've read on these boards that a number of people use Royal Purple (their Max ATF product I guess), but I can't get any tech info from Royal Purple on their product. They are one of the few that don't even have a spec sheet on their Max ATF product (or any other product that I could find), and have not replied to any of my emails requesting a spec sheet or other technical data on it.

Does anyone have any technical, or experimental data on the Royal Purple MAx ATF, or have another recommendation?

Also, any info on the thermal conductivity of the synthetic tranny fluids would be appreciated.

 

I don't have the sort of information that you seek, but like the way you think.
It sounds like you use your truck to tow.
What I would do is go get two transmission bypass valves (about $45.00 apiece) and replace the one that is on your truck right away along with your upgraded cooler. Keep the other one in the truck along with your spare CPS. They are known to fail and overheat the tranny.
Brian's truck shop of BTS automatic transmission fame uses Shaffer's oil.
There's quite a few guys here that swear by it for both the engine and the transmission.

 

You won't find a tech data sheet on Royal Purple, and they probably won't answere your e-mails - I've tried that route before. Here is the technical data sheets on Schaeffer's synthetic tranny fluid - excellent stuff. One of the few companies that lists everything and every test on there website. Hope the info helps you make your decision.....


http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/204SAT_r.pdf

http://www.schaefferoil.com/204_transmission_fluid.html

 

Thanks guys. Shaffers definitely has one of the more complete data sheets. If its good enough for BTS its good enough for me. Actually, giving them a call and asking for their recommendation was on my list of things to do so you guys saved me making that call.

 

Make sure you call the 1-800 number on there website and ask for the sales rep in you area. The web site only list the retail locations. Sales reps have better pricing.....

 

I can personally testify to the Schaeffer's fluid - both the oil and trans fluid. I've got it in my BTS (obviously) and my trans temps typically hover around 150* when running around empty. A little higher around town due to the TC not being locked all the time and a little lower on the highway. That's with the 6.0 trans cooler as well.

 

If you want to be able to elevate the temps on your 4R100 then run the synthetic(Amsoil, Schaeffers, Mobil 1), If you are looking at performance or extended intervals, you should still do the use the factory recomended 30000.

Syn ATF is 2X the cost of Mercon, probably not worth it, unless you see elevated temps, You are going to put the 6L cooler in? Then you dont need the synthetics..IMHO..

 

Mach1 - I don't understand any of your post. 1st, why would I want to ELEVATE my tranny temps. 2nd, why do you think any of the fluids you mentioned would do that, and what is the source of your data that says they would. 3rd, did you mean I would still need to change my fluid every 30000 miles per factory recommendations, and why do you beleive that doing the factory recommendation will give me better than factory performance. Also, if I'm doing the factory recommended 30000 mile fluid changes then what do you meean by "extended interval". Finally, a tranny rebuild costs roughly $2500-$3500. Could you explain to me your assumptions and math that shows how an extra $100 for a fluid that helps extend the life of the tranny is "not worth it". I'm really not trying to be a smartass here. I'm just trying to understand your position.

 

The only difference in the Mineral and syn is that the syn will withstand higher operating temps, thats it, no longer change interval, No increased performance( Probably loss of, because of the slipperness of the fluid). So, if you are running elevated temps(which you are not because you are going to install the 6L cooler) then you wont get any benefits of Synthetic fluid. So why pay 2X the price?

Is this explaination enough?

There is no need to run synthetic fluid unless your temps are too high-above 230...Save your money for other mods..

 

I agree with Mach 1. Install the 6L cooler and you may not need to go with the synthetic fluid. If your temps stay in line and don't go high there isn't any reason to go with synthetics. Use Dino and change more often and you'll do better by your transmission. BTS uses synthetic because they have changed the internal parts to need synthetic fluid. Not necessarily because it is better.
Joe

 

IIRC, Mercon V is a syn blend anyway. Also, I'm not sure what parts in a BTS transmission "need" synthetic fluid. If a fluid meets the Mercon V specification (and yes, it has to be tested and pass before it can have "Mercon V" on the label), then it's good to go, syn or not. I have run syn fluids in my vehicles for years and swear by them. One thing to keep in mind is that it's true that syn fluids handle hot temps better, but they also handle "almost" hot temps better. What I mean is that if you heat up to 210, both fluids will "handle" it okay. When you get to the magic 230 mark, the syn will handle it where the dino starts to burn. However, during repeated trips heating the tranny to 210 even though both will handle it, the syn "handles" it better. In other words, it isn't as affected, which means it isn't as worn at the 30k mark as dino. To my mind, that simply means it will help the tranny last longer. Good enough reason for me to run syn...

Joe

 

Joe(izzy), let me add one more point to your knowledge bank.. BTS uses a 50% Schaeffers ATF to 50% Mineral ATF..Some of the speculation was the Schaeffers ATF was TOO slippery by itself(still is alot of speculation on this subject matter).

Joe, you are right the Syn will handle the temps better then the Min, because of the base stock being syn. You are right again as well, BTS has aftermarket clutch material than can use, Mercon, Mercon V and Syn. however the OEM clutch material is not synthetic compatible, ALOT of the Trans Guru's will recomend Mineral ATF in the OEM trans. ( But I dont know because I am not a Guru..) Something about it being more 'slippery' or it attacks the clutch adhesive and breaks it down...

The trans guru's will hold alot of knowledge and not disclose it publicly, I should not even be divulging it as well..Once I completely understand all that I need, I will start rebuilding them as well...

Joe-m, I understand what you are saying and agree as well.

 

"The only difference in the Mineral and syn is that the syn will withstand higher operating temps, thats it, no longer change interval, No increased performance( Probably loss of, because of the slipperness of the fluid). So, if you are running elevated temps(which you are not because you are going to install the 6L cooler) then you wont get any benefits of Synthetic fluid. So why pay 2X the price?

" The trans guru's will hold alot of knowledge and not disclose it publicly, I should not even be divulging it"
"

As I mentioned earlier, the reason that I am considering syn's is because they ALL say they reduce tranny temps, and the lower the temps the better. So when you say there is no difference you are disputing that claim. So let me ask again what is your data or other information that supports that claim. Saying that Guru's are telling you these secrets that they don't tell anyone else doesn't really help much.

I agree that a 6.0 cooler will reduce temps also, but lets just discuss tranny fluids. I can only see 2 ways that syn's could lower the tranny temp. One is by creating less heat and the other is by better conducting any generated heat away to the housng and cooler. Creating less heat can only be done by reduceing friction which is a good thing for the gears and bearings, but not such a good thing for clutch plates. I suspect there is a sweet spot when it comes to clutch plate friction where you get the best shift with the lowest wear. That is, beyond this point in either direction you will get either less wear with slower shifts, or firmer shifts with more wear. In either case, the slipperyness you refer to is measured in a cluthch plate friction test (I think) which is one of the tranny fluid specifications. The clutch plates only generate frictional heat during the slip/(dis)engagement phase as where the gears and bearings generate heat all the time.

I'm not sure what "performnce loss" you are refering to or how you are quantifiying it. Shifting speed, or tranny life maybe? From frictional heat stand point it would seem that a fluid that traded less frictional heat generation for softer/slower shifts might be better, but would depend on the driving specifics. For a racerer this would be a bad trade-off.

Regarding the heat conduction aspect, I have not found anything in any of the fluid specifications which address/specify this so I have not been able to make a comparision of syn's vs. dino's on this subject. I have asked this before but will again. Has anyone with a tranny fluid temp guage have any actual data on tranny temp difference with a syn vs. a dino fluid.

 

Interesting. I'm subscribing to this one to see if there are anymore inputs. To be honest, I have had manuals for the most part so when syns could have a "too slippery" issue in an automatic, that is a positive when you run it in manuals. My tranny is due for a change, so I'll probably go with a syn blend (like Mercon V) just because of this issue, but I will say that there are quite a few folks here running full-syn (Schaeffers, Royal Purple, Mobil 1 ATF, etc) without any problems, but I respect Brian's knowledge here. However, this *IS* the first time I heard that he puts in 1/2 & 1/2.

Thanks for the input!

Joe

 

I've never heard of Brian using a 50/50 mix of fluids. Last time I was there, the only fluid I saw around the shop was in a Schaeffers container. And IIRC, the fluid all came out of the same drum, not a mix of the two.