I have a 2002 F 350 with the auto manual hubs. I have developed two problems with them. One the vaccum doesn't work anymore. I put a gage on the wheel side of the line, and pumped the heck out of it, and did not get any vaccum. The dealer tells me.... the hub seal is probably leaking, and they are $60.00 each to buy, and 3 hrs. at a shop rate of $110.00 / hr. to install, parts extra. They say I need a Special tool to remove hub nut, and another tool for proper installation of the seal.

So to make my problem even worse, I can't turn the hubs to the lock position either. I did manage to get one side to go, but the other still won't move. The hubs are not serviceable. Plastic inside and aluminum housing. When I got the one to move you should have seen the road dust that came out around the edges. Ford wants $500.00 each for a new hub. and they have lots in stock at the dealership. ..... tells me they know there's a problem with them.
I would like to go manual warn hubs. But I also liked the auto hubs for winter time. But I am also wondering about the loss of vac. Should I replace the seals and repack the bearings also? The truck has 89000Km on it.

 

The vacuum solenoid probably needs replacing. The hubs themselvs cannot cause a loss of vacuum to the hub. They can leak, but you are measuring vacuum before the hub,

As for using manual hubs, why would you want automatics for winter use? I have used nothing but manual hubs for the past 12-13 years living in WA, IN and WI. Not once have I had to get out on the side of the road and lock my hubs. I haven't had to get out in a mud bog to lock my hubs either.

If you think you might need 4 wheel drive, you lock your hubs before you leave. When you decide you need to engage 4 wheel drive, you flip a switch and off you go. It doesn't hurt anything to drive around with the hubs locked. If I am going into an area on dirt roads, expecially if I do not know the area, I lock the hubs.

The only time I have had to get out of my truck and look at my 4 wheel drive system was when I broke an automatic hub, which is why I now use manual hubs. 3 wheel drive is not the hot ticket in deep snow.

As for your truck, just put the Warn premium hubs in place of your automatic hubs and plug the vacuum lines. That way you won't have to repair anything else.

 

Thank you for you input..... you are right. I drove my 78 ford bronco for 7 years, rust and all, and it alway's had the manual hubs. I would lock them up in the winter, and leave it that way, then pull it in when I needed it... guess I just got spoiled.... and lazy with the auto hubs. Do you know where I can find Warn premium hubs? The parts stores around my area don't know what I'm talking about.

 

I agree with redford that it can't be the seal if you aren't getting any vacuum to the hub. Has to be before the wheel.

And I have to comment on this...

The stealership told you that it would take 3 hours to replace seals? What a rip off! I did all four ball joints in five hours of my and my brothers time. I could replace all the seals in about an hour/hour and a half now that I have done it twice. Have no clue why it would take them three hours just to replace the seals.

Oh and that "special" tool can be made for about $12 and a bench grinder. There is no other special tools needed for disassembly or assembly.

If you are interested here is all the info you need on replacing the seals and ESOF maintenance in general. You'll have to read a lot but it's a gold mine of information.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/3...ll-joints.html

http://guzzle.rbmicro.com/nblube.html

http://guzzle.rbmicro.com/allube.html

 

You used a hand pump to apply vaccum to the hose? Of course it didn't hold any vacuum, it was being vented by the solenoid. If you insert the guage in the line on one side and leave the opposite side connected, or remove it and plug the end, then activate 4x4 you should see approx 15 in hg for up to 45 seconds. Back to 2wd, about 7 in hg, less time 15-25 seconds. If you connect the hand pump to the back of the hub, apply vacuum it should hold reasonably well.

Aside from physically breaking an automatic hub, with a little maintence I think they can work pretty well. No one has a great answer for ESOF with some sort of axle disconnect. Fords first version up to 04 has some shortcomings. The worst is the poor sealing on the manual dial that causes it to seize with grime, so you are double stuck if the vacuum system develops an issue.

 

Check local 4x4 stores for Warn Premium hubs. If they can't get them, try the supporters here.

 

[QUOTE=aldridgec]You used a hand pump to apply vaccum to the hose? Of course it didn't hold any vacuum, it was being vented by the solenoid. If you insert the guage in the line on one side and leave the opposite side connected, or remove it and plug the end, then activate 4x4 you should see approx 15 in hg for up to 45 seconds. Back to 2wd, about 7 in hg, less time 15-25 seconds. If you connect the hand pump to the back of the hub, apply vacuum it should hold reasonably well.

Maybe I should re-phrase how I did that.... I disconected the hose midway, (close to the frame) Attached the vaccum hand pump to the hose leading down to the hub. Or as you said, "the back of the hub". after working the pump several times.... it never did show any signs of vaccum. I tried this on both sides. with the same result.
I'm not a mech. So there's a lot of stuff I don't know about.

I'm thinking that how is it that both seals on either side could fail at the same time?

One other test I tried, was I engaged the 4 x 4 on the dash, then pulled one line apart, and, plugged the line at the frame with my thumb. My friend did the same on the other side. We both plugged the lines going to the solenoid, (I assuming it's located under the motor somewhere). Neither one of us could feel any vaccum when they were plugged off. we hook one side back up, and still nothing. I never thought to use a gauge on this. I will try again using a vaccum gauge to see.

If it is the solenoid, where would I find the solenoid?

 

Monster-4 thanks for the links, those help a lot. I'm pretty sure I can build that special tool, after seeing it. But I think I should recheck for the vaccum leak somewhere else first.

 

I just had my right side hub vacuum seals replaced at the dealer and they showed that it was 3 hours of labor. So just to have one side fixed (just seal replacement), the bill came to $392.51.

Mine was still under warranty so no cost to me but now it's out of warranty so next time I have trouble with it I will be putting on Warn locking hubs which cost less than one seal replacement by the dealership!

 

WOW! 3 hours of labor to replace 1 seal. Just to let you know I had an ESOF problem (would not auto engage and my right hub would not manually lock). I learned you should engage 4wd once a month to maintain the system lubricated and in working order.

Back to your seals. The hub seal is a small rubber o-ring and takes about 15 minutes to replace. You can remove the hub without removing the wheel. The hubs can be cleaned and lubed. Check out this website:

http://guzzle.rbmicro.com/allube.html

It has all the info to remove, clean, lube and re-install the auto-locking hubs (including the hub seals). If that doesn't fix the problem you need to do some vacuum tests. You can do some driveway doctor by pulling and plugging the line from one hub and seeing if the other hub locks. Re-attach and de-tach other side and test again. There is a rubber hose in each wheel well that goes to the hub knuckle. This a common failure point. If you need to replace them you either need to order a brake assembly with brackets, banjo and hoses for about $60 or take your hose to Lowe's and have them cut you a few feet for a couple of bucks. The line that goes from the engine compartment to each wheel well is plastic and probably not the problem. The other common failure is the Pulse Hub Vacuum (PHV) solenoid that mounts on the fender wall under the hood right next to the passenger battery. Use a vacuum tester to see if it draws >10" for engage and 5.8-7.3" for disengage. If not, then your solenoid is bad and it is Ford part number 7C3Z-9H465-A (this part number has been changed recently and this is the correct part number). It worked on my '03 and would assume it would work all the way back to at least '99.

Also, I paid $12 for the o-ring and retaining clip and $250 for a new hub (yours may be a little more as I had some "favorable" pricing from a Ford parts guy I know). If you get a new hub, it is greased, lubed and ready to go. It also includes the o-ring and retaining clip so you don't need to buy that either.

 

Wow thanks for the help!!!! This is an awsome sight to get info on my truck. I've got a few day's off now, so I'll be doing some checking, and testing this weekend. Parts prices up here in Canada are nuts. $500.00 per hub. $87.00 for the new solenoid. Not sure about the o-ring. I'll be checking things out, and will let you know via this thread how I make out. Thanks again for the advice.

 

Here is a quick test to see if you have a vacuum leak in your axle.

Put your a/c on. The vents should be blowing hard. Turn on your 4 wheel drive and if your a/c turns to defrost then the hubs are leaking and it could be a seal.

That is how i found my seal leak.

 

That's not the seal it books for 3 hours to replace. Talking about the floating seal on the shaft to the hub on the back side. Also the yellow ones on the hub bearing itself. It just gets a little confusing as to what is referred to as a "Hub".

I usually use "hub lock" for the device that you see sticking through the wheel.

"HUB" for the wheel bearing.

 

Ditto on what the sarge said. Every truck I've owned had manual hubs and that little lever on the floor. Only twice in 48 years did I stick a 4X4 - and both times they were REALLY STUCK. Both required large tow trucks to extricate. Six Chevy or a dozen Dodge 4X's or another Superduty wouldn't have been able to free them.

 

Well I finally got around to looking into my hub problem.
I tried the AC, switch on the 4wd trick. And sure enough, it switched to Defrost. Dang...... I was hoping it wouldn't, switch, and then I could just check the Solenoid, or vaccum lines out.

I pulled it ito Lube X for it's 90,000 KM oil change and grease job. Not a bad place to go.... For an extra 20 bucks, you don't have to mess with dirty oil, and filter disposal, and they let you check out under your truck while they work on it.
So while he was greasing the only six zerts, on the whole truck, I noticed this ring on the passanger side front wheel, right where the U joint goes into the hub. Looks like it's part of a seal. So I'm thinking that's what's caused my problem.
Does anybody know if this seal is hard to change?