How long ago were all these Pennz/QS myths from? Shell now owns those brands. Castrol is a division of BP and the whole industry buys base oils and additives from the same few suppliers. API SM dino oils are so similar in properties today that any brand will work just fine for typical six month 6000 mile intervals.

BTW, I had sludging with Valvoline in the late 1960's that Pennzoil cleaned up. Engines that used Castrol back then had strange green and gray deposits inside when I tore them down. These were my experiences with air-cooled VW's.

Jim

 

Like I said, I think that myth is a load of crap really, and I also believe that most oils are pretty much the same. I just go to walmart and buy valvoline, castrol, or mobil clean jug for 10 bucks and call it a day. Never had a problem with any oil I've used, and I doubt any oil will cause problems. It doesn't really matter what you use just change it when you're supposed to, don't be like my brother that didn't change the oil in his honda for 18K Miles . I finally went and changed it myself. I bet he's got plenty of sludge in that baby, somehow still runs great at 158K.

 

We use quaker state on a fleet with Isuzu NPR trucks (27 units) all with 5.7L gassers and they run like 350,000 miles on them before trading/junking. changing oil religously at 3000 miles. so that kinda throw that out the window.

 

Yeah, like I said I didn't believe it either. Probably just one of those "I heard from a guy who heard from this other guy qs and pennzoil suck". So obviously, change your oil to keep your engine happy! and use whatever oil you damn please.

Mike

 

because RP is a sponsor....and they get it free!

and if you're like most, changing it every 3-4k, you can run Supertech Dino and be fine....

 

My mother bought a brand new F-150 in 1995, ran nothing but QS and Penns, I changed the valve cover gasket at 110k miles, and was scooping sludge out of the top of the motor. Those oils contain parafin wax, which is great for making things slick, but it accumulates. The synthetic versions are probably fine, but I'll never use the base oils again. I have been running Valvoline Synthetic blend ever since, and am now switching to RP since I get a 20% discount on it. I am currently running RP in my 67 stang, and in the tranny of my truck, the motor leaks or I'd put in there too. I just run the diesel 15-40W in the 460. I'll switch my other stang and Capri on the next oil change.

 

Actually you said the magic words when talking about quakerstate and penzoil and that is fleet, they are run a long time everytime they are started. If you run the engine at least 100 miles or at least 1-2hrs each and everytime you start it hen those oils seem to work fine but if your typical daily driver that gets a lot of start go 2 miles and turn it off never letting it or the oil get to full operating temp they tend to sludge up the engine (seen it time and time again in my life probably pulled apart 5 dozen engines run on penzoil and all were sludged up, where as most other oils not so much, yet pulled down a coops truck that I knew was run on penzoil figuring to find it sludged up and it was spotless looked brand new and this is where my idea of it has to be run long times and hard for those oils)
As to RP I run it in my race engines and transmissions found a 10 degree drop in trans temp vs regular atf. and found on the race engine I could go 3-5 races before needing to change it, Valvoline dino oil One race and it was like water even cold, mobil one would last max 2 races, just my experience

 

Here we go with the myths again. All paraffinic hydrocarbons are not waxes. CH4 (methane, natural gas) is an example. All modern base oils are hydroprocessed which converts all the wax into lighter hydrocarbons. A "base oil" is the unblended lube oil without additives, not a low grade of finished motor oil. The 15W-40 that you like is made from hydroprocessed paraffinics.

The most likely source of sludge in that 1995 F-150 was thermal oxidation from early 5W-30 formulations breaking down, not from wax. The only problem waxes cause is slow cranking in cold weather due to the thickening effect of wax crystals.

Jim

 

When I said base oils, I simply meant it as a disticntion between synthetic and regular, not some inferior form of oil.
Thats good to know because the sooner this 460 dies the sooner I can get to dropping in a cummins.
I dont quite understand, could you please elaborate a bit. Do you mean older recipes or something to that effect.

 

Yes, until recently, dino 10W-40 and 5W-30 needed a lot of Viscosity Index improver additive to reach that wide range. The additive itself breaks down. Older low-viscosity solvent refined base oils were also not as pure or oxidation resistant as modern hydroproccesed ones.

The resulting sludge, when extreme, was called "black death".

Jim

 

I know for a long time it was not recommended to use a multi-viscosity oil with a spread of more than two grades, i.e., 10W30 vs. 10W40 as the oil would not hold up.I see that grades are now offered that have a wider range, so the formulations must have improved considerably.

On the Penns/QS debate, I have never found these oils to be defferent than any other. If engines were properly maintained, they performed as well as any other name brand. It also depends on the condition of the engine. Many of these myth's were started in the days of carbureted engines which contributed to unburned gas in the crankcase. Also, many engines came from the factory without oil filters, it was an option. Oilbath type filtration in the intake system didn't help much either. jd

 

Yup, in the 50's & 60's things were changing fast, especially with the improvement in refining & the introduction of multi-viscosity engine oils & oil filters.

I think maybe many of the deposit horror stories come from those times, because some of the manufacturers like ESSO & QuakerState & others earned them!!!!!

As a youngster I spent time at the local gararge, that did engine rebuilds.
Got so that I could tell you what engine oil was used, by the type of deposits in the engine.

Esso/Exxon now, would leave tar like deposis, QuakerState, Sinclair, would leave a gray pudding like mess, WolfsHead, Kendall, Valvolene would leave a baked on black Carbon coating, Pennzoil engines would be relatively clean sludge wize, but every thing would be coated with a thick layer of orange/brown varnish, on anything that didn't rub together, Havoline would have maybe a hint of varnsh here or there, but no sludge, gel, or hard carbon deposits. All of the above, except Pennzoil & Havoline had heavy crankcase deposits, that looked like the stuff in the top end of the engine.

Other brands like Shell, Sunoco, Mobil, Chevron, Pure, Union76, Kendall maybe a few others I can't remember right now, weren't sold in this area, or used in any quantity, so I ever saw engines torn down that had used them.

Chevron, Mobil had a good name, even though they weren't sold locally.

I can remember seeing OHV engines so sludged up that you couldn't even see the valve springs or rockers!!!!!

Some gasolines were known to varnish up carbs more than others.
ESSO was the worst, Texaco was sorta in the middle, Mobil if you could find it,was considered the best.

Sunoco had the highest octane & a pump that allowed you to mix the octane you needed, which all we youngsters thought was neat.

The introduction of oil filters & better grades of base olis, multi-viscosity lubes, with better add packs & PCV valves, all helped clean up the engine deposit problems.

The removal of lead from fuel & computer controlled Fuel Injection helped too.

But still in the old days, there were three or four companies that put out superior products & you could see the results right in the engine, without all the improvements!!!!!

Those companies earned my trust early on. They shied away from questionable market advertizement hype & just let good products speak for themselves.

Now days with all the control organizations, that have to do with the setting of standards & testing of engine lubes & gasolines, the bar for minimun performance, has been raised such that those that only meet the minimum requirements, will likely do, IF we will at least adhear to the mfgrs scheduled maintenance, for oil & filter changes, using products that meet or exceed the mfgrs specifications.

Remember, those mfgr specs are not maximum, but MINIMUM specs, or this is how bad this product can be & still not cause problems, at the specified conditions & use time!!!!

So we need to make sure what we use in the way of lubrication & filtering, says it at least meets those mfgr set minimum standards, or preferably exceeds them, then change at the specified times, or if using extended OCI's, at least have regular oil analisis done to make sure our lubes still ok.

Just some old remembrances for pondering.

 

pawpaw

You left out GLUF, back then it seemed that Glufpride was the best oil in the 60's and the gas was the best. No-Knock was the highest octane. We had all the guys that raced at the track to come in and buy No-Knock to race with.

 

There used to be big differences in motor oils based on where the crude came out of the ground, Pennsylvania, California or the Gulf coast. That was back when all they did was distillation of the crude, maybe an acid treatment and clay filtering. Pennzoil and QS based branding and reputation on that fact. When modern refining made the source of crude totally irrelevant, they moved to Texas, but kept the names. Eastern crude was primarily paraffinic, Western is napthenic, or what used to be called asphaltic, and Gulf coast kind of an in-between mixture. A whole chapter in an old aviation mechanic textbook I have was devoted to motor oil properties.

Consumer products of all kinds have become better, but differences in brands less important over the last 50 years or so. One brand of television would use different technology than another and you could see the difference. Zenith, RCA, Magnavox and others each had good and bad points. They are all gone now and due to microcircuits, anything you buy today at any price point still far out-performs them by a long shot.

Jim

 

Yup I remember Gulf gasoline from my WVa days as a runny nosed youngster!!!!

My Dad's company store delivery truck was run on Gulf No Knocks gas & back then during WW-2 it was rationed & you had to have cupons to get what was available, use all your cupons, no gas!!!! lol

That old Dodge stake body 2.5 ton 6 banger was run on Gulf oil, as were all the Koppers/General Stores fleet vehicles. Don't remember which oil they used, but most vehicles then used straight 20wt, 20W-20, or 30wt & the first engine I saw torn down in the late 40's, had been using 30wt & it was carboned up pretty good!!!!

Here in SW Va, for some reason, we didn't have many Gulf stations & the ones that were here, didn't sell much gas & didn't last long.

Another popular gas brand I forgot, was Amoco & their "white gas", as it was called locally, it was the clear unleaded high test & was well thought of locally, but was more expnsive than oher brands high test, so many folks didn't use it, because of cost.

Not many used Amoco oil either. Their "white gas made mufflers last longer, so it was said, so many folks with expensive dual muffler set up's would use the Amoco white gas, to try & make the mufflers & tail pipes last longer. Typically then with leaded gas, about 3 years was all the life you could expect for a muffler & tail pipe!!!!

Around here Esso & QuakerState, were the most often used lubes & the ones causing the most engine deposit problems.

In later years when Esso came out with their "Golden Esso" gas, which as I remember had ether in it & was called for by Chrysler to be used in their 300, it was considered as a good gasoline. I ran it & the Amoco in my 56 dodge V8 & both gave the same highway mpg. Texaco gas didn't run good in it, but I liked their Havoline motor oil & have used it for about 50 years now, in al kinds of engines.

Got back to using Texaco "Clean System 3" gas back in 97, to fix some driveability problems in my 94 3.8L Taurus. Only took 3 tanks to WAKE it up!!!!! lol

Later Chevron came to town with their "Techron"gasoline add pack & it too ran good in the Taurus & 99 Ranger 4.0L.

And yes way back in the 40's we had "Purple" motor oil too & it was called "Royal Triton", made I believe by Union76. Anyone remember that?????

SO, products change over time, we just have to try & keep up with the curent corporate culture changes, as they have corrupted the good names some products had in the past & have on the other hand, cleaned up & improved other bad reputaton products.

Now days we just have to spend time trying to keep up with who's rising, or falling, in product quality.

With all the standards & testing, the minumum performance bar has been raised to such a level, that most products will likely work ok, if changed per the mfgrs schedule & for the ones that don't measure up, the internet spreads the word FAST, so it kinda helps keeps them all more honest, thank goodness!!!!!