302 Blocks
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302 Blocks
Hello everybody, I am new to this forum and have a few engine questions. First of all, I am a Ford truck enthusiast, but most of my engine questions are linked to my dirt track race car. I look forward to hearing some of your opinions on my engine!
I am exploring my options for an engine package for my wissota midwest mod it looks like I will be going to 302 route with Aluminum intake and E-85.
My question is: aside from the mexican block, what is the strongest production 302 block? Would I want a late 80's roller block or an earlier 60's or 70's? What about a 95 mustang block? I have heard the roller blocks have more material for the lifters, but do they have more material in order to beef up the block as a whole?
Also, with the roller block, would any 302 or 351 camshaft work or does it have to have a special diameter journal diameter for the cam?
I was also thinking of getting a set of roller cam bearings, but I would not be able to restrict the oiling to the upper end as I will have to be running a hydraulic cam. I am curious if any of you have any thoughts on this, I would like to hear your opinions!
Thank you!
Ryan
I am exploring my options for an engine package for my wissota midwest mod it looks like I will be going to 302 route with Aluminum intake and E-85.
My question is: aside from the mexican block, what is the strongest production 302 block? Would I want a late 80's roller block or an earlier 60's or 70's? What about a 95 mustang block? I have heard the roller blocks have more material for the lifters, but do they have more material in order to beef up the block as a whole?
Also, with the roller block, would any 302 or 351 camshaft work or does it have to have a special diameter journal diameter for the cam?
I was also thinking of getting a set of roller cam bearings, but I would not be able to restrict the oiling to the upper end as I will have to be running a hydraulic cam. I am curious if any of you have any thoughts on this, I would like to hear your opinions!
Thank you!
Ryan
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From: sunny fla sometimes windy
How many rpms do you turn? The 302 should be way strong enough and light enough for your situation. It is a like 100# lighter than a 305 bowtie that alot of guys use!
You are going to be running a dry sump system right? What heads are you looking into?
You are going to be running a dry sump system right? What heads are you looking into?
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Here are the engine rules for this class:
Let me know what you guys think! I have a nice set of gt40p's to use that I have been using for years. And I plan on turning no more than 6500-7000 rpm with a 500cfm holley. To be competetive in this class, 350-400 hp seems to be the norm, so we really have to massage the parasitic losses out of the engine by using coatings and lightweight stuff!
[7] ENGINE
A. All engines used in competition must be able to be used in conventional passenger
cars. Only the motors listed in rule book allowed. No Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, AMC, or
other engines allowed. See section 1 general rules 1.1 general application. Castings and
fittings must not be changed. No machine work on outside of engine or on front or rear of
cam. No aftermarket blocks allowed. No Bowtie, SVO or any special production blocks
allowed. No splayed or aftermarket main caps allowed. No turning a block that was not
produced as a 4 bolt main into a 4 bolt maini block. No grinding or polishing of any kind
allowed to the block. The two rear oil return holes in lifter galley can have the flashing
ground out of the hole only. Only the engines listed in the rule book allowed. No Pontiac,
Buick, Oldsmobile, AMC or other engines allowed. See section 1 General Rules, 1.1
General Application in the front of the rule book.
B. No total "dry sump" systems allowed. "Wet" system must be operative and will go
with engine if claimed. No external oil pumps of any kind allowed.
C. (1) single radiator only and must be mounted in front of engines.
D. Eligible engine CID and vehicle weight (minimum weight for all listed engines is 2600 lbs.):
Chevrolet 305, 307, & Ford 302 w/aluminum intake: (max. overbore .060")
Chrysler 318 w/aluminum intake: (maximum overbore .040")
Chevrolet 327, 350; Chrysler 340; Ford 351’s: (maximum overbore .060")
Chrysler 360: (maximum overbore .040")
No Chevrolet 302 engine components allowed.
Note: Reliable Chevrolet engine specs can be found online at: www.mortec.com
E. All motors must not exceed 9.5 to 1 compression ratio!!! No intermarriage of rods or
crankshafts to block allowed.
Example: 305 Chevy must run 305 rods & crankshaft
318 Chrysler must run 318 rods & crankshaft
350 Chevy must run 350 rods & crankshaft
351C Ford must run 351C rods & crankshaft
F. Crankshaft must be stock production (I.D. numbers intent). Stroke must match block.
No aftermarket or altered cranks. No lightening, grinding, knife edging or polishing of
any type allowed. Balancing allowed, material removal by drilling only. No heavy metal
allowed. No fluid balancers allowed (OEM balancers only). No hubs only allowed.
Minimum diameter 283-307 and small journal 327, 6 1/8 x 3/4 inch thick. 305-350 and
large journal 327 minimum diameter 6 3/4 x 1 3/16 thick.
w i s s o t a . o r g
© 2007 WISSOTA Promoters Association 2 0 0 7 49
G. Connecting rods must be OEM stock steel production only. GM (OEM) powdered
metal rods allowed, must remain 5.7" length. No aftermarket rods allowed. Rod length
must match block. No grinding, polishing, sanding of rods allowed other than balancing
rod ends. Maximum 3/8" bolts. No cap screws. A minimum of 3/4 inch (1" recommended)
inspection hole in side of oil pan 2-1/2-inch down from pan rail in line with a journal.
Inspection hole must be easily accessible to inspector; if not, the inspector may require
removal of oil pan. Floating wrist pins allowed.
H. Cylinder Heads must be stock cast iron production only. Any evidence of sanding,
polishing, relieving, grinding, porting, chemical treatment or addition of material
(chemical or otherwise) to the cylinder head ports or combustion chamber will cause
the head to be declared illegal. Cylinder heads multiple angle valve grinds permitted.
1987-1995 Chevrolet "Swirl port" heads allowed. Ford "302" GTP heads may be used
on both the 302 & 351W.
1. The following heads will NOT be allowed. No angle plug, bowtie, SVO, W-2,
Magnum, Vortex or any other aftermarket heads allowed at any time. Some of the
Chevrolet casting numbers NOT allowed include: 186, 187, 291, 414, 492, 461, 461X,
462, 432, 040, 041, 370, 10239906, 14011083, 14096217, 1012532, 10208890, or
12554290. No Gen. II heads allowed.
2. No external sanding, grinding or removal of ID numbers.
3. Any relief cuts made below the valve seat must be made using a carbide cutter
(no stones) and may not exceed more than 1/4-inch below the top of the valve seat.
No porting, polishing, grinding or port matching allowed at any time.
4. Stock production valve spring diameter only. No bee hive or tapered valve springs
allowed.
5. Screw-in studs & guide plates allowed. Pinning of press in studs allowed.
Valley pan allowed.
6. Stock type stamped steel rocker arms only. No roller fulcrum or roller tip rocker arms.
7. No stud girdles allowed. Maximum valve sizes will not be specified. No polishing,
grinding, adding of foreign material or cutting allowed to combustion chamber.
I. Intake Manifold:
Chevrolet 305, 307 cid: Weiand #7547, 7546 or 7547-1 aluminum intake only.
Chrysler 318 cid: Weiand #7545 aluminum intake only.
(Note: The marketing division of Holley has replaced the Weiand brand name of some
products to Team G. Be certain that you refer to the product number instead. Additional
information can be found on the Holley website at www.holley.com.
Chevrolet 327, 350; Chrysler 340, 360; Ford 351 Cleveland and Windsor: only stock
O.E.M. two or four barrel cast iron unaltered manifolds only. No aftermarket, marine,
bowtie, SVO, W2 or any other special production intake manifolds. No throttle-body type
or fuel injection intake manifolds. No propane or Chevrolet raised plenum truck intakes
(casting number 14088674, 14088675) or similar intakes. May drill center intake bolt
holes to match 1987-1995 Chevrolet heads.
Ford 302: Weiand #7515 aluminum intake only.
J. Hydraulic cam and lifters only. No solid or roller cams and lifters. No bushing of lifter
bores allowed. No gear drives allowed. No coating, painting or any other work to inside of
Intake manifolds, heads and block lifter galley allowed. Lifters must collapse a minimum of
.100”, be made of magnetic material and be free to rotate.
K. Flat top or dished pistons only; no domed pistons.
L. Distributors. Stock O.E.M. distributors only. Billet distributors allowed. No multiple-spark
boxes. No magnetos or dual-point distributors allowed. Any coil used must fit in stock
cap and must use stock coil cover. GM H.E.I. Distributor can be interchanged with Ford
and Mopar engines.
M. May use aftermarket headers.
N. Engine Setback, Offset and Height: The rear of the engine must be mounted at least
50
2 0 0 7 © 2007 WISSOTA Promoters Association w i s s o t a . o r g
72" forward from the centerline of rear axle. Engine offset must be kept within 2".
Engine height minimum will be 11".
O. Battery - (1) single 12 volt battery only. Dry or acid cell allowed.
Battery must be securely mounted and shielded.
P. No crank trigger ignitions allowed.
Q. No vacuum pump/air pump allowed.
R. External cooling lines: maximum of 2 lines from the back of the intake to enter into
thermostat housing or spacer. No other external cooling lines allowed.
S. No piston type fuel pumps allowed. Must be stock diaphragm type.
T. Midwest Modifieds valve timing configuration and firing order must match the engine used
(example: Chevrolet 18436572)
U. All engines are allowed to run a valve train oil deflector.
V. No titanium engine parts allowed
Let me know what you guys think! I have a nice set of gt40p's to use that I have been using for years. And I plan on turning no more than 6500-7000 rpm with a 500cfm holley. To be competetive in this class, 350-400 hp seems to be the norm, so we really have to massage the parasitic losses out of the engine by using coatings and lightweight stuff!
Last edited by powercar82; Sep 21, 2007 at 10:55 AM.
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From: CANADA
You state that you use light weight stuff and coatings, but in the rules it says thats not allowed? stock rods and crank, no knife edgeing or polishing, no titanium, no behive springs, I think you get my point. While skimming it I noticed that GTP heads are legal and you have a set, Use them! Late 80s-early 90s stangs had stock forged pistons if theyre allowed (93s went to hyperutectic).
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From: CANADA
Doesnt seem to say anything about coatings on pistons and bearings I guess. As for strongest stock 302 block your limited to the mexican and the boss. Both are hard to come by and I'm sure the boss is worth more to someone else for obvious reasons. I beleive Mid-67 through the early 70s had a higher nickle content but didnt have the extra material as a mexican.
Last edited by BEWOLD; Sep 21, 2007 at 12:09 PM.
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For the pistons, I am going to use Mahle lightweight since we can use any piston we want. Yeah when I said "Coatings" I meant pistons and bearings and combustion chamber. Does anybody have an opinion on the roller cam bearing kits that are sold through Ford Racing?
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From: CANADA
Roller cam bearings arent worth the cost for the average builder. But your racing, and Every little bit counts right. You can increase your oiling to your mains and rods, and reduce windage.
Last edited by BEWOLD; Sep 21, 2007 at 12:31 PM.
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From: Ottawa, Ontario
Find an Explorer 5.0 and use that. It'll have the GP40 or GT40P heads and a roller cam. Substitute a '93 Mustang Cobra cam,(F3ZE-6250-CA), it was the biggest factory cam with 0.479" lift in/ex, 270 duration in/ex, and factory 1.7 ratio roller rockers. Strap on you carb and intake and let the *** kicking begin.
Last edited by Conanski; Sep 21, 2007 at 02:05 PM.
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From: Ottawa, Ontario
Originally Posted by powercar82
We can use any cam we want as long as it is a hydraulic flat tappet.
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are you saying that a 68 block would be the next strongest to the 5.0 blocks? So aside from the mexican block the consensus is that the late model roller blocks are best? Thank you all for your replies!
Hotshot
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Posts: 11,141
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From: south louisiana
Other choices are the D8VE 302 block, this one's got 10 more lbs of iron than the 87-up roller blocks.(the 87-up roller block weighs in at 125 lbs) I have one available if you're interested. Forget using 91-up 5.0 rods, they're not up to snuff, this is the F1TE forging, the C8OE rods are stronger, the weak point in these was the rod bolts. Use ARP small chevy bolts for maximum strength (15/32" diameter vs 5/16" for the Ford bolts) After reading thru all that, you'd be better off going with a 351C to race. Better heads, stonger block, rods & cranks. I also have a good std bore, unrebuilt 72 short block to move. For short track racing, top it with the Aussie 2 bbl heads.
Last edited by baddad457; Sep 21, 2007 at 09:25 PM.
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From: sunny fla sometimes windy
Stick with the lightest block you can find!! It will be plenty strong for the rpm range you'll be running!! I say this because it will definately be an advantage since you can't
do much as far as mods, Losing weight becomes priority better power weight ratio!!!
If you could lose 50lbs yourself that is a couple of horsepower right there!! Make sure you take time and port match all the ports and gaskets. Make sure the transition from exhaust port to manifold is as smooth as possible!! For a given gearset the only way to make it go faster is to increase the rpm's, Use the lightest internals and of course the coatings to increase your rpms!!!
do much as far as mods, Losing weight becomes priority better power weight ratio!!!
If you could lose 50lbs yourself that is a couple of horsepower right there!! Make sure you take time and port match all the ports and gaskets. Make sure the transition from exhaust port to manifold is as smooth as possible!! For a given gearset the only way to make it go faster is to increase the rpm's, Use the lightest internals and of course the coatings to increase your rpms!!!