[updated:LAST EDITED ON 05-Sep-02 AT 10:42 PM (EST)]I've got a '72 360 that has a really simple spark timing marker. It looks like just a simple piece of sheet-metal. I checked the junkyard on another truck and it was the same. There are no degree marks! I did a rough calculation to see that 1 and 3/8" from the pointer to the mark on the dampener is 15 or 20 deg. Are there better timing pointers I can buy? I'm not a big fan of chrome, but if that's what it takes...


Thanks!
--Matt



1972 F250 4x2 360 2v C6 3.73

 

The degree marks should be on your harmonic balancer.


Scotty

 

Interesting. Thanks!

I'll have to look more carefully next time I'm under it.

--Matt


1972 F250 Custom Sport Camper Special 4x2 360 2v C6 3.73
Soon to have a 104" wheelbase as part of a Broncification project

 

Should look like this:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/sizeimage.php?&photoid=8343&.jpg

 

You are awfully useful when it comes to pictures Barry!!

 

Yes, thanks for the great pictures, Barry. Mine were hidden under a thin later of grime. It's amazing what a little alcohol and a rag will reveal. When I actually saw the marks, I has 30 deg of initial advance (yes, with the vacuum disconnected). My marks are not stamped as deeply as the ones in the BBB's picture.

I must have the lowest compression ratio on the planet. I've never been able to make that engine ping (even at 30 deg or more initial), and I almost always run regular. IS THIS NORMAL for these engines??? I'm used to engines that knock lightly at the factory spec, or just a little beyond that. Maybe I should run a compresion test.

Is the stock compression ratio just that low?
Should I be looking for a cam timing gear misalignment?
Is it possible someone slipped in a set of the (shorter-than-360) 390 rods in the last rebuild?

It runs pretty well, but it just won't ping.

This is a mystery to me.

--Matt



1972 F250 Custom Sport Camper Special 4x2 360 2v C6 3.73
Soon to have a 104" wheelbase as part of a Broncification project

 

Thanks guys, I knew these pics would come in handy some day.

Matt, maybe your damper has slipped and your timing marks are off. Buy one of those stops that screw into the spark plug hole, put it in #1. Rotate the crank one way until it stops, mark the damper. Rotate the crank the other way until it stops and mark the damper again. Split the difference between the two marks and that's TDC.

Barry

 

Barry,
I'll bet you're right. Sounds like a good course of action.
I backed the initial to 15 BTDC per the original marks and the thing is such a dog now. I wonder if once slipped it will keep on slipping?

I'll follow your advice and check it with a dead-stop. I didn't know they sold them, but hey, ya learn something new every day... (In school we made them out of old spark plugs.)

Thanks!

--Matt


1972 F250 Custom Sport Camper Special 4x2 360 2v C6 3.73
Soon to have a 104" wheelbase as part of a Broncification project

 

Barry, thanks for the reminder on using the dead-stop to check the marks. I'm cheap, so I made one out of a spark plug (removed the ceramic core) and a 1/2-13 x 2 1/2 bolt. It would have been easier if I'd predrilled the hole before tapping it, but the Autolite's original hole was pretty close.

Anyway, the big news is that the harmonic balancer marks were spot on. But why does it still seem to "need" so much advance to run well??? I checked the vac advance -- it was worth about 10 deg when i connected it to direct manifold vacuum. Next, with vac still disconnected, I revved up the engine the engine and watched the timing -- IT DID NOT MOVE. AHA!

OK, so that part of the mystery has been solved. The centrifugal advance is frozen. So I just set the "initial" timing for a 25 deg BTDC compromise until I can fix the centrifugal.

QUESTION: Now, what's the right way to rebuild the dizzy? Are there kits for these? Springs, bushings, what else? Where's the best place to get one?

Thanks in advance (25 deg to be exact, HA!).

--Matt


1972 F250 Custom Sport Camper Special 4x2 360 2v C6 3.73
Soon to have a 104" wheelbase as part of a Broncification project

 

Matt, great troubleshooting! I’ll have to remember that one, needs lots of initial because advance is stuck.

On the dizzy, you can get lazy and exchange if for a rebuilt one or do it yourself. Don’t know of any kit but I’ve bought bushings at the dealer before. One of the HP books on rebuilding Ford engines has a section in the back on rebuilding the dizzy. Can’t remember which book, it’s either the small block, 335 & 385 engines or the big block book. I can check it out when I get home tonight. When I find it, I can email you some scans of the pages if you like.

In the meantime, remove the rotor and apply a few drops of penetrating oil on the felt pad (if it’s there) or just drip down it in the hollowed-out section of the shaft. Give it time to work and then try to rotate shaft, it should start to loosen up.

Barry

 

Barry,
I pulled the distributor tonight and had a look inside. I popped off the various clips and eventualy, the breaker plate was free.
After some liquid wrench and a little gentle persuasion with the screwdriver, the mechanical advance started moving.

I noticed that it had one thick spring and one lighter spring. The lighter spring was lightly preloaded when the mechanism was against its low rpm stops. The heavier spring started with a little slack, but then engaged once the mechanism was twisted toward the high rpm stops. I don't know if this was done to tailor the curve or someone just stuck in what was handy. BTW, it's an Autolite with casting number 12127 -- I didn't happen to notice a Ford-type number on it.

Anyway, I lightly oiled the mechanism and felt button and dropped it back in. It didn't drop all the way in, even with some twisting, shaking, and wrestling, so I jazzed the starter relay for about a millionth of a second a couple of times with a screwdriver and it dropped right in.

I set the point gap to .017, and the timing (12 or 15 BTDC -- couldn't see the marks all that well). It idles much better at that setting, especially once the vac is reconnected. It really woke up the HIGHER RPM performance as well (that makes sense). Now passing gear is all about power, where previously, it was all about noise. IT'S A REAL KICK IN THE PANTS!

If you happen to see that rebuilding article, feel free to send them my way. I'd like to see what they say about the advance springs.

Thanks again for the advice!

--Matt


1972 F250 Custom Sport Camper Special 4x2 360 2v C6 3.73
Soon to have a 104" wheelbase as part of a Broncification project
My FTE Website -- http://www.clubfte.com/users/mlf72f250/index.html
My Galleries -- https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/displaygallery.php?userid=1108

 

Hey Matt, glad to hear you got it all working. The advance springs are just as you described, one thick one which is loose at low rpms but kicks in later and one thin one for the lower rpms. That 12127 is the basic part # for the dizzy, there should be a D?TE before it and one or more letters after it. I'll try to scan the pages on Friday, send me your email address in a pm.

Barry

 

Hey Matt, I just looked up the dizzy #, it could be either a D2TF 12127 JA, PA, LB or MA depending on 49 state or calif.

 

Barry,
Thanks!
I sent my email offline.
If the pages look good, I'll probably order the book.

Well, I'm off to work and looking forward to the drive...

--Matt

1972 F250 Custom Sport Camper Special 4x2 360 2v C6 3.73
Soon to have a 104" wheelbase as part of a Broncification project
My FTE Website -- http://www.clubfte.com/users/mlf72f250/index.html
My Galleries -- https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/displaygallery.php?userid=1108