I am going to start this thread to maybe help some guys and to get some other opinions.. I'm not trying to give a class or force my opinion on somebody but I get questions all the time about this and I think it is a very important isse because tires and fuel are very expensive.

I don't like alignment racks because you don't get a true alignment on one. The way I like to do them is "as driven".. Let the truck roll to a complete stop with out touching the brakes..This shows the true alignment because there is rolling resistance on the suspension and steering components.When you put a truck on a rack the front wheels go on turn tables that are independent of each other so the suspension and steering components relax and that isn't what is happening when the truck is rolling down the road. I am guessing here, David85 correct me I am wrong, that David85 checked his toe with the truck sitting on the ground and found the excessive toe. I wouldn't suprise me to check it on a rack and it would be right or closer.

Toe is easy to check and adjust. Camber can be a little harder when setting your ball joints. Caster is built in like Camber is with kingpins. Toe is the big one that causes most of complaints, tire wear. You can check toe with a tape measure and I set mine at 1/8" positive or basicly one deg. Positive meaning the front of the tire is wider then the back of the tire.

You also want to check the front end against the back end. Alot of people complain about about how bad the IFS trucks drive. It is because of alignment. With a truck with the right toe,positive, and you are driving down the road the tires are trying to spread apart and if you have worn pivot bushings that will pull each of the axle housings apart in relation to the frame and if your spring pin bushing are worn then it gets really bad because each wheel is going all over the place and at that point you aren't driving the truck you are herding it like a goat down the road. You can fix this and make these IFS trucks drive fine. Besides replacing worn bushings replace the bolts if they aren't the right size.. Ford, for some reason, put 14mm bolts in 9/16" bolt holes and bushings so when the truck was new the bolts were bouncing around in the bushings in the springs and pivots. It was out of wack from the get go. I checked a 95 model truck for a guy that had 60k on it and he complained about how it drove and that he had it aligned and stil was horrible. When I checked the bushings in the springs I could see daylight between the bolt sleeve and the rubber in the bushings....

If you are having a drivability problem and you are going to take it to a shop and have it aligned check your bushings yourself. Don't trust the rack to catch that wear. Most likely it won't because everything will relax.

I hope this helps because I know that handling problems can be frustrating and the only recoarse most people have is an alignment shop and I not saying they don't know what they are doing but we have figured this "as driven" aligmnment thing out in the big truck world around here.

 

You are absolutely correct in how I checked my toe in. When I did my F250 earlier, I couldn't help but think back to when I watched the guys "correct" the front end of my F150, with each I beam supported in an air jack, then mounted some fancy measuring device on each wheel rim to caluclate the toe in.

But understanding how I beam suspension works, I couldn't help but wonder how the overall settings of the front end would change if you were to take your readings with the vehicle resting on its tires instead of on jacks.

The way I check the alignment is to roll the truck a minimum of four feet back, then forward to where is was before, using the Ebrake to stop it (usually just put a foot down). Then take the measurement with the wheels on the ground.

It can be a little time consuming, but I am happy with how both my trucks track.

 

Thank you Catfish101. I will be checking mine next week.

 

I am not sure I am buying into this completely. From what I understand, the reason you have a toe adjustment other than zero, is to compensate for the suspension compression when you are driving it. Most vehicle's specs call for some toe-in on the rack(front of the tires closer than the rear) so when you are driving down the road, the compression of the rubber bushings from driving forward, will cause the wheels to toe out enough to were they are pretty much dead straight or as close as possible.

 

The heavy duty truck world is pretty much gone to 1 deg. postive. I set all my dump trucks at 1deg. and I set all my pick-ups at 1 deg...

There has been alot of discussion about this in the alignment world and not everybody will agree 100% and that is that way with anything but we have been setting at this toe for a few years now and have had exellect luck.. great tire wear and great handling.

I also agree with you about setting for compensation but every vehicle is different, even ther same model, that is why the "as-drive" alignment is getting popular in the big truck market.. There is a company that has a laser alignment set up that goes over each tire with the vehicle on the ground and it is really slick... I can't remember the company though. I went to a alignment seminar at a International dealer awhile back and they demonstrated it and the dealership had been using for awhile and loved it.. It cost about $5000 compared to a $40,000 rack.

 

Hey Catfish, I installed new Radius arm bushings and pivot bushings yesterday, It seems a lot tighter now. Today, I set the tow in as you instructed. It's much better now, but getting a slight pull to the right. Any suggestions?

 

Pulls can be from lots of things..Did it have the pull before you did any work? and it is always to the right?

My 83 had a pull to the right sometimes.. I could turn the wheel to the left quickly and it would straighten out and quit pulling.. I think it is in the gear box.

 

Radial Tires caused my truck to have a strong pull to one side. I went to get an alignment and the shop told me to get new rubber first. After I bought new tires the pull was completely gone. It had gotten progressively worse as the tires wore. They were BFG A/T's. I got over 65,000 miles on them with even wear. I would have bet money that a tire with proper inflation could not have caused that much pull. Joe

 

Tires can do funny things. There is alot more then meets the eye and if they are on a mail vehicle they won't last long. My wife gets about 4000 miles on a set.

 

I am sorry but the way I read this you are describing negative toe in or toe out.
This will put you in "goat herding" mode.

I will not let an alignment shop touch any of my trucks. I don't use a tape measure. I set a beer can or cigarette pack against the rear tires and sight along the front tire and set it to about 1/2" out from the rear tire. I figure this gives me about 1 degree positive toe in. I talked about this to an ace auto mechanic and he said he sights from the rear to the front and kind of eyeballs the toe....better than a lasar in the hands of the untrained I'd say.

 

I didn't discribe the terminology correctly. Yes when the tires are wide on the front of the tire it is actually called "negative" or toed out. I was taught backwards on the terminology for toe years ago and it has stuck. I should have said toed out and toed in.


The reason that we have been setting dump trucks 1/8 wide in the the front is to help with the tires slipping when you turn. When a vehicle turns it will be in a slight toe out condition even if you set it with 1/8 toe in. That is due to the geometry that is used on cars and trucks today. It is called "ackerman geometry" That is were the term "ackerman arm" comes from and you see that term used on some big truck parts descriptions. Anyway it seems that we have alot better tire life on dump truck and tractor steer tires since we have been setting them this way. I set my pick-ups that way and have had great luck with it. It seems that it puts the tires at more of a toe out condition when turning which keeps them from slipping. It really has made a big difference on my wifes mail jeep. Since I can see tire wear fast on it because a new set will last about 4000 miles I can get an idea fast. I tried it at different measurements and at about 3/8" wide it did get a little silly. At 1/8 it drives fine and it wears the front tires alot better, especially the right front.

Every vehicle is different and driving conditions can dictate different settings. People should try their trucks at different measurements and see how it handles. It seems that truck that are heavy on the front end the wide toe helps with the front tire scrubbing on turns. It does make a difference on how fast you drive. There is alot of variables.

If a persons truck doesn't like 1/8 wide then suck it in some but the point I am really trying to make is it definitely better to check your truck on the ground with rolling resistance intact.