You couldn't say the same thing about Ford owners?

 

true....

idk

 

"Agreed - but there is a fine line between bashing American auto makers and pointing out their faults. They have made lots of mistakes over the years, they have gotten arrogant and too big for their pants."

I hear ya!
There wouldn't BE any foreign competition if the American companies did their jobs properly. There is no excuse for the wide variety of mistakes and REPEAT mistakes the US auto industry has deliberately chosen to make.
I don't owe it ANYTHING. Its duty to itself is to compete and win by producing tough, RELIABLE, easy to service, thoughtfully designed and high quality vehicles.

 

Bill, please don't tell him about the pre-'97 English Cortina

German and Australian Capri

Japanese Mercury Villager

Korean Aspire/Festiva

German Fiesta with English motor

I think if this guy found out Ford was in with all these foreigners....well, hope his suicide is painless.

 

When you are #1 you have the biggest bullseye on your back. That's the way I see it.

 

My wife wanted to buy a Toyota/Honda when we were shopping for a new one. I asked her why, " Because it's more reliable" . I had to remind her to compare my Festiva, yes I know Korean made but it's still a Ford, with no problems to her rusted out bairly drivable Corolla. We got the Escape and now I can't pry it out of her fingers. The recalls are starting bug me though.

I guess I look at it as where a majority of the dollars are going. Ford is a global company as well as Toyota but most of those dollars stay here in the US. Toyota is based in Japan?

 

"I guess I look at it as where a majority of the dollars are going. Ford is a global company as well as Toyota but most of those dollars stay here in the US. Toyota is based in Japan?"


And you know this how????

And IF it were true how does it help you???


BTW, that Festiva was NOT a Ford.......pretty sure it was a Kia re-badged as a Ford.....where did the money go when you bought that car??



[oh, and your Escape..................it's a Mazda]

 

I figured somebody would respond that doesn't know how to read and/or comphrend. Reread what I put about the Festiva one more time. Did I pay Korea for the car or Ford I'm pretty sure it was Ford. And where is Ford located? Mazda is owned by Ford so how is this an agrument?

 

I did reread it......you said "it was Korean made but still a Ford"

You're incorrect; it was a KIA......NOTHING to do with Ford.


Who did Ford pay for the car???........How many Americans were used during the building of the Kia with the Ford badges??

And Ford only owns 39% of Mazda.


Get over yourself, you're supporting foreign interests more than most.....don't kill yourself!!



Oh, and answer the question:

IF the "dollars stay here"....how exactly does that benefit YOU/ME???

When Ford uses that money to build a factory in India/Mexico/China, did the "dollars staying here" benefit you???

 

I said I was proud to know that MY trucks were made in America, at a time when that made something. I could really care less about the rest of the rebadged jap junk, pre 97 full sized ford trucks are what I know and love. You can throw all your worthless statistics on the table, it simply goes in one ear and out the other.

People love to preach about how great our new "world economy" is, I for one an still doing my part to fight it. I buy locally grown produce, I buy from local small businesses over big chain stores.

Drive what ever the hell you want, but don't give people crap for driving what they choose to drive. Peoples false notions of "superior" japanese products come from the American media who's soul purpose seems to be a mission to destroy the American auto community.



During a hard time in my life I worked for a temp service who stationed me at the American Honda parts warehouse[2015 West Lake BLVD, Davenport Iowa 52804, look it up if you dont believe me] Theres a network of 5 large warehouses, I believe, positioned all through out America. NO parts are manufactured there, they all come in crates from japan.

Honda never hired anyone, they simply sourced several local temp services. By using temps they can get by with working people 40+ hours a week and not pay them benifits. By law they could only work temps 1250 hours in a year, once the time was ment they had to hire or fire ya, they'd simply fire you and pull in another pawn to take your place. They paid crap, 6.10 an hour, and the work was terrible.

The place was run by people who had no idea what they were doing. No body was in contact with anyone, you had to go between 10-15 people to get a problem fixed, and half the time you'd see the part still layin there on the table at the end of day, management just didn't care. If a problem came back on the part they'd interigate you about it, I'd explain to them how I talked with a manager about the problem and that manager said they'd take care of it, yet at the end of the day I'd be the one getting wrote up for the damn part. Management ruled by fear, they'd fire you on the spot if you wern't living up to their expectations.

As far as quality goes, everyone knows untrained temps who could care less about the job always do the best work. Everyone else knows temps make the best employees, I worked hand and hand with misrable people, many illegals, drug addicts, very old seniors working to stay out of poverty. To keep up with the pace many people simply cut corners, parts were mislabled, packed in the wrong box, or simply thrown in the box with minimal packing insulation.



I do understand your aguments about American auto makers using imported parts, or importing the whole car. But I've also been a insider on the other end of the spectrum. Trash American auto makers all you want, the japs sure as hell aint any better.

 

Maybe if you actually listened a little better, you wouldn't be so wrong all the time.

By buying that ALL AMERICAN Ford truck that you base sooo much of your existence of being a patriot on, you are also supporting a company that buys FOREIGN!!! What is so hard to understand???


First off, you will NEVER find me trashing any automaker (well, maybe Yugo)
I pride myself on being fair and objective.

When some xenophobe is sooooo happy that Toyota gets a recall, I cringe because all that does is open us up to ridicule. Like a Cub's fan making fun of a Yankees losing streak.

When someone complains that legacy costs/unions are what hold down US automakers, I point out that our cars are at LEAST that much cheaper and there is no excuse for the quality difference.....perceived or not.

I have acknowledged the Tundra's screwups.......I also am very impressed how Toy handled it.

Go to the 6.0 forum and look up how people have had their trucks in service for weeks while the dealer shot gun troubleshoots the problem.


I am currently being absolutely screwed by Ford concerning my transmission.


While I believe those statements above to be fact, not opinion; I do admit that no one has succesfully explained to me how a Tundra built in an American city with 75% American parts is any less "patriotic" than buying a Mexican built domestic with less American content.

Same with a Mexican built Fusion vs an American built Camry.....I have asked countless times; one lame answer that keeps surfacing is "the money stays here"..............well, it's obvious it DOES NOT stay here.

Another answer is the that the domestics employ more US workers.....I can see the benefit in that. But I've also seen where it's been shown that it takes significantly less man hours to build a car in a "furrin" plant.

When Mulally first took over Ford one of the 1st things he did was visit Toyota in Japan to get an idea on how to EFFICIENTLY run an auto business.

Was that trashing Ford?.....go jump his stuff.





The bottom line is we buy what we want.......to buy only because you "think" you are somehow supporting the economy buying that Fusion is ridiculous.


If it matters (sure it doesn't) I'm seriously looking at the Lincoln MKZ. Ford is giving 'em away (it'll lease for waaaay less than a similar Camry) and with the luxury and new motor I kind of like it.

I gave the Jetta TDI a fair shake.....love the economy, HATE the diesel response.


Trucks??? Ford currently has nothing I like......nothing to do with being patriotic or trashing Ford. If the '09 rumors are anywhere close, I'll be all over that truck.

Do you get it yet????

Just because it's a Ford does not make it automatically better than everything. (My God, some people think they are loyal to Ford/America buying a Korean built KIA with Ford badges.... )

Just because it's a Toy doesn't make it automatically better than anything. I thought the 1st generation Tundra was no where near ANY domestic truck.

For years I thought the Ranger was better than the Tacoma. (you cannot say Ford didn't drop the ball on that truck)

I call them like I sees 'em.....I won't apologize for that. And while I'll always give Ford the first look due to some strange sentimental feeling, no blinders here, if someone has something better, I'll concede.

 

> and takes sales off the big 3 I don't understand that.

There is a large group of people (myself included) that object to the moral issues and stances being taken by Ford and Dodge. This group of people would rather see Ford and Dodge go out of business then to support the issues and moral stances that these companies support.

That might be considered a BOLD MOVE by some, others might consider it biting off your nose to spite your face.

That is about the best I can describe it in this forum.

 

I defy anyone to find any "moral stances" that Ford or Dodge support.
I'm not urging anyone to buy or not buy either, but "moral stances"???

This is why "badge engineering" works, because customers don't think deeper than the logo they see on the vehicle. They deserve what they get.

For the people that really want an all-American truck as opposed to pretending, you have a choice too:

It's called "restore or mod an old one using domestic parts", and will save you buckets of money over a new vehicle while supporting smaller US firms and businesses like your local machine shop. This forum has all the answers if you choose a Ford. The difference in acquisition price and insurance makes running fun stuff like 460s an affordable proposition.

 

The Festiva/Aspire was a Mazda engineered, Kia manufactured vehicle.
Made in S.Korea.

An interesting bit of trivia:
It was a move, subsidised by the S. Korean government (like most S.Korean auto industry stuff).
Ford wanted a cheap car. Kia (and more to the point the S. Korean government) wanted the intellectual property of knowledge on how to design and build a world standard car.

You can still buy a Festiva today, just its in the form of a Kia - a Kia Rio actually. As soon as the Festiva Mk 1. had to be remodeled, the S. Korean government banned it from being sold as a Ford.
Approx 0
33.4%, but due to Japan's business laws, this is a controlling share.
If I have Ford stock, yes.
I know what you are referring to - and your support in not discussing those issues in this forum IS appreciated.
Without trying to get too political. That is how the American economy became so strong.Laissez Faire
Survival of the fittest.
I think if they wanted to destroy the US auto community they would start setting fire to Ford and GM assembly plants.

The Japanese (Toyota mostly) have done more good for the US auto industry in the last 20years than Ford, GM or Chrysler.
I am not talking in terms of building factories in the US either. In terms of competition. The cars that you were fed after 74 were nothing short of pure unadulterated crap.
Toyota (and even Nissan and Honda to a certain extent) have gone a long way to improving that, just by competition.
Look at the Fusion - yes it is based on a Mazda 6, and yes it is built in Mexico, BUT you have a world class car with a blue oval badge on the front of it.
You will get the same with the new Camaro when that arrives too.
I encourage you - take a step back for second.
Why do you think this is?

Do you think that it is because they want to destroy the US auto industry - or because parts can be made more efficiently/cheaply/better quality there than in the US?
And I can tell you it isn't because of cheaper labour, or cheaper resources - Japan has the highest paying auto workers in the world, and has to ship in the majority of its resources.
Maybe they just do it smarter?

Whatever it is, prehaps the US industry needs to do what Japan did in the 50's, 60's and 70's and learn from its competitors.
... unfortunate ...
But thats more a state of big business today than it is a poor reflection on Honda.
If they are going to run a business like that - its their loss.


To put a disclaimer here at the bottom: Apart from my first car (a 63 Mini Cooper) and a Toyota Landcruiser - that has since bit the dust, and was purchased because thier was no blue oval option for a heavy duty pickup available here - all my vehicles have been Ford (I even include my RX-7 SP a blue oval product, even if Jack might not )
Its not because I am trying to support any industry, but they were purchased for the following reasons.

1997 Mazda RX-7 SP - The car would destroy Porsche's, Corvette's and even Ferrari's on a race track. (in fact it beat all of the above in many a 12hour endurance race here) Not to mention it was at least 1/3rd the price of all of them too.
2003 F-350 - There was not another vehicle that could haul or tow with the power and comfort of the "beast". Not to mention it was surprisingly good (given its size) off-road too.
2003 Ford Falcon - Handled like a BMW M5, but with 1/3rd the price. Had an engine that sounded like if you fed it a Honda Civic it would quite happily eat it, and throw it straight out the exhaust pipe.
2004 Ford Falcon pursuit ute - Engine as above, with the ability to haul 1tonne.
2005 Ford Ranger diesel - slow, ponderous, but simple as brick, and just as reliable. Oh, and much cheaper than any of its competition.

Each was an objective decision, I couldn't get a better vehicle for the money in any other showroom (which is what Ford's have always been about).

 

Thanks for the correction.

Sorry... ................J/K, I hope that they rebound and you make a fortune.

Is there a different Ford stock in Oz???


What a novel concept............



Be careful Buddy, you'll be accused of being Un-American......nevermind, that wouldn't bother you anyway.....


Again.............be careful, I've only been saying that for years. You certainly wouldn't want certain......err....ummm....members(?) not "getting" you!!!



Cool list of cars, but unfortuantely Ford has not had that "spark" in the US for a while,

Cars like the Shelby GT500 are outstanding but totally mis-managed in the way they are distributed.

The Marauder with a Terminator powerplant....or even your 5.4 DOHC would have been HUGE to bolster U.S. Ford's image.

Throw that Yamaha V8 into the Volvo chassied 500/Taurus....I'd buy one.


With my "settlement" from Ford, I'm looking at Lincoln MKZ's tomorrow......Ford woke up and upped the power. I hope we like 'em. Ask Mum if she wants to buy the Jetta TDI....