Is the 302 a "bad" engine?
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Woodbridge NJ
I love my 5.0L. I've put a bunch of stuff on it ....cam,intake,bigger injectors, and a 6 psi supercharger.
But, I'm in the process of building a 427 stroker 351W.
Like someone stated before....no replacement for displacement.
I was thinking big block.....but what a nightmare for fuel injection swap. I'm gonna use the supercharger on the stroked 351.
The last time I went to the track I ran a 16.5 in the 1/4 mile. Not too bad for a 3/4 ton truck w/ 40x18" Boggers.
I guess thats equivalent to a new stock truck.
But, I'm in the process of building a 427 stroker 351W.
Like someone stated before....no replacement for displacement.
I was thinking big block.....but what a nightmare for fuel injection swap. I'm gonna use the supercharger on the stroked 351.
The last time I went to the track I ran a 16.5 in the 1/4 mile. Not too bad for a 3/4 ton truck w/ 40x18" Boggers.
I guess thats equivalent to a new stock truck.
Freshman User
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Corpus Christi
Originally Posted by preppypyro
99yellow gt, why is it, that a 351w would be good for more hp then a 302 block? I would think they would be just about identical. I think you can use the same motor mounts to do a 351/302 swap, and with alot of parts, like heads, being interchangeable, I wouldnt think the 351 block would be a whole lot bigger, or different...
New User
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: tucson
Originally Posted by marcus1977
The block for the 351 has more material and is physically stronger that a 302 block, talking about the stock applications of course. I would say in my experience that about 550 is pushing it for a 302 and about 650 for the 351. If you want to talk dart blocks then it's a whole other discussion.
but yeah if you really want to lay down some reliable power then go with a DART block. They weigh like 80lbs more than a stock 302. Just to give you an idea of the extra metal and quality of the metal.
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More Turbo
Joined: Jan 2007
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Originally Posted by archangel
No, not at all, but just compare the 302 V8 and the 300 in-line 6.
Both have the same displacement and piston diameter, but it is applied differently.
Both have the same displacement and piston diameter, but it is applied differently.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Florida
I like the 302.......for a good all around motor...it's got good torque and good HP and RPM's........good pulling truck too...hell I pulled a 78 f-150 with a 400 and alot of crap in the back of it no problem...but that doesn't compare to my old 100 dollar 81 F-100 with a 3spd OD and 300-6....pulled a New Holland 2wd Tractor with a full bucket canopy and hay tedder...no damn problem......Damn right the farmer feeds the world.....see below.
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Redmond, WA
There's a good reason that old smallblock lasted so long.... It's a damned good motor and tuned properly does just fine for a 1/2 ton truck application. Including, towing.
There's quite a following out there, aftermarket parts, forums, clubs etc. for the retired smallblock wonder. That should stand for something.
You tend to hear some negative things about the 5.0 in the truck forums here, but that doesn't dispute its longevity, reliability, and power capabilities.
I love my 5.0!
There's quite a following out there, aftermarket parts, forums, clubs etc. for the retired smallblock wonder. That should stand for something.
You tend to hear some negative things about the 5.0 in the truck forums here, but that doesn't dispute its longevity, reliability, and power capabilities.
I love my 5.0!
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Des Plaines, Illinois
Maybe you hear a lot about having problems with the 302, but c'mon, how many of them have been on the road? Of course you're going to hear about people's problems when you've got a jillion engines out there and some of them, like many of ours are going on or going well over 20 years old.
My truck is a bucket, crumbling around me. She stinks, she needs an exhaust, she's got a pinhole oil leak, speedholes all around, mismatched wheels and a bed full of old asphalter's gear...the fan only blows on high, the air doesn't work, the steering wheel isn't aligned properly, the radio backlight is out so you can't tell what you're listening to...but that 302 starts up every morning. That E4OD shifts gears every day, some a little...firmer...than others. She doesn't overheat, she doesn't blow smoke and she's never let me down.
A bucket, overflowing with problems. An engine that's been to hell and back and hasn't given up the fight yet.
All those problems...but I wouldn't trade that engine, or that truck for the world.
My truck is a bucket, crumbling around me. She stinks, she needs an exhaust, she's got a pinhole oil leak, speedholes all around, mismatched wheels and a bed full of old asphalter's gear...the fan only blows on high, the air doesn't work, the steering wheel isn't aligned properly, the radio backlight is out so you can't tell what you're listening to...but that 302 starts up every morning. That E4OD shifts gears every day, some a little...firmer...than others. She doesn't overheat, she doesn't blow smoke and she's never let me down.
A bucket, overflowing with problems. An engine that's been to hell and back and hasn't given up the fight yet.
All those problems...but I wouldn't trade that engine, or that truck for the world.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Topsfield, MA
There is nothing bad anyone can say about a 302 engine.
Between the 302 and 351...they are reaching the legendary status of the 350 chevy and are getting more and more popular every year.
The 350's popularity has leveled off but the 302/351 engines are growing strong.
We just complain about them a lot around here because they are a bit small for trying to move around a 5000+ lb truck. The 302 is more at home in a lighter vehicle like a mustang or other car.
The 351 is a much better candidate for a truck because of it's longer stroke. I used to own a 302 5 spd truck and now have a 351 5 spd truck...I'd NEVER go back to a 302....just isn't torquey enough....it has weak low end torque. That is the only negative thing you could say about a 302 and it has nothing to do with how it was built or designed....just the physics behind an engine with a 4" bore and 3" stroke.
Between the 302 and 351...they are reaching the legendary status of the 350 chevy and are getting more and more popular every year.
The 350's popularity has leveled off but the 302/351 engines are growing strong.
We just complain about them a lot around here because they are a bit small for trying to move around a 5000+ lb truck. The 302 is more at home in a lighter vehicle like a mustang or other car.
The 351 is a much better candidate for a truck because of it's longer stroke. I used to own a 302 5 spd truck and now have a 351 5 spd truck...I'd NEVER go back to a 302....just isn't torquey enough....it has weak low end torque. That is the only negative thing you could say about a 302 and it has nothing to do with how it was built or designed....just the physics behind an engine with a 4" bore and 3" stroke.
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More Turbo
Joined: Jan 2007
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considering im nearing 177k im pretty sure i have a great engine, oils been religiously changed every 3000 miles and i still use 10W-40 in it.
My question is now, should i worry about it? im plnning on buying a lightning when im in or out of college and want to keep my truck i have now, i dont want to get rid of it, means too much to me, sentemental value and such... i love my truck, has some power when i need it, pretty fun when i want it to be
My question is now, should i worry about it? im plnning on buying a lightning when im in or out of college and want to keep my truck i have now, i dont want to get rid of it, means too much to me, sentemental value and such... i love my truck, has some power when i need it, pretty fun when i want it to be
Posting Guru
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From: Joliet, Illinois
Originally Posted by NeXtras
the 300 I6 is a great engine as well... my dad had a 86 bronco with an I6 in it, put 250,000 miles on it when he traded it in and it was still running great!
It's more the way you maintained and operated it that made it last so long.
Good maintenance + respectable use = long life!
Hell, I got my Daihatsu (that had a 999cc 3 cylinder) to last over 300,000 before the EXwife killed it dead!
Good maintenance like changing the oil, coolant, brake fluid and fixing things properly as needed.
Respectable use like not reving it to 5000 rpm's on the first start of the day and holding it there for 5 minutes, because it won't idle cold, because it not maintained and repaired properly.
Posting Guru
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From: Florida
weak low end torque?That can be remedied with other mods.....I've done it, and it's helped me quite a bit....still no match for a newer Vortec Chevy but it'll beat the hell outta a 5.4 and a new so-called "HEMI".......Just cause the truck itself ain't built to a person's specs doesn't mean that there aren't other ways to get around it without going into the internals....You can always make a good thing better, it's doin it right that's the issue......
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: The Redneck Riviera
The 302 is actually the smallest and lightest of the popular v8's. It weighs about 460 lbs and has the lowest deck height of a bit over 8", if I remember correctly. Most other small blocks weigh about 100 lbs more.
I've been researching with an eye towards rebuilding the 302 I have or trying to find a nice 351. With gas prices being what they are, and will be, I think I'll stick with the 5.0. A set of aluminum heads, some lightweight headers, maybe a few other weight reduction mods and you can probably get the weight down to about 420 lbs. Maybe only 400.
Some of the extreme crate engines being sold advertise 425 hp and such. Very impressive from so small a package. I don't think I'll get that radical, tho. Maybe just a 331 stroker kit, heads, midrange cam, and MAF, sequential, hei ignition for neatness. A 6000 rpm engine, redline, w/about 350 horses.
I think I'm gonna dump the auto, too, and use a z-spec T5. Save 75/80 more lbs there.
1992 F-150 SWB Flareside Limited Edition
EFI 5.0L/E4OD/3.55 2WD
Metallic Cherry ext/Grey & Black int
Factory 7.5" Aluminum wheels w/31x11.5's
I've been researching with an eye towards rebuilding the 302 I have or trying to find a nice 351. With gas prices being what they are, and will be, I think I'll stick with the 5.0. A set of aluminum heads, some lightweight headers, maybe a few other weight reduction mods and you can probably get the weight down to about 420 lbs. Maybe only 400.
Some of the extreme crate engines being sold advertise 425 hp and such. Very impressive from so small a package. I don't think I'll get that radical, tho. Maybe just a 331 stroker kit, heads, midrange cam, and MAF, sequential, hei ignition for neatness. A 6000 rpm engine, redline, w/about 350 horses.
I think I'm gonna dump the auto, too, and use a z-spec T5. Save 75/80 more lbs there.
1992 F-150 SWB Flareside Limited Edition
EFI 5.0L/E4OD/3.55 2WD
Metallic Cherry ext/Grey & Black int
Factory 7.5" Aluminum wheels w/31x11.5's
Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
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From: south louisiana
Originally Posted by robprime
With gas prices being what they are, and will be, I think I'll stick with the 5.0. A set of aluminum heads, some lightweight headers, maybe a few other weight reduction mods and you can probably get the weight down to about 420 lbs. Maybe only 400.
1992 F-150 SWB Flareside Limited Edition
EFI 5.0L/E4OD/3.55 2WD
Metallic Cherry ext/Grey & Black int
Factory 7.5" Aluminum wheels w/31x11.5's
1992 F-150 SWB Flareside Limited Edition
EFI 5.0L/E4OD/3.55 2WD
Metallic Cherry ext/Grey & Black int
Factory 7.5" Aluminum wheels w/31x11.5's
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Topsfield, MA
Originally Posted by flareside_thunder
weak low end torque?That can be remedied with other mods.....I've done it, and it's helped me quite a bit....still no match for a newer Vortec Chevy but it'll beat the hell outta a 5.4 and a new so-called "HEMI".......Just cause the truck itself ain't built to a person's specs doesn't mean that there aren't other ways to get around it without going into the internals....You can always make a good thing better, it's doin it right that's the issue......
No matter what you try to do to a 302...it will not have the low end torque of a 351.
In stock trim, a truck version 302 (made by ford for lower end torque vs say a mustang application) has practically nothing for torque under 1700 rpm. Once you cross the 1800-2000 area it wakes right up and has plenty of power.
The 302's lack of low end torque is hidden by an automatic tranny in most regards. If you've played with it using a manual tranny you'll see what I mean.
Example...
Take a stock 302 and a stock 351...same everything else...in a manual transmission truck.
Put it in 2nd gear at about 10 miles an hour (about 1000 rpm)...give it 1/2 throttle...and see which one takes off. The 302 will lag behind by FAR.
I used to stall my 302 off road in 4L in sand because it was so weak.
Any number of torque intakes, cams, etc....can't change the simple fact that it has a 3" stroke. You could probably improve upon the low end torque a smidge but at a sacrifice to it's upper end power and regardless....
...it'll never make the low end torque of a 351. The 351 has it by 40 ft-lbs at peak...probably a bit more in the weeds of RPM.....and that is a big difference.
Last edited by MustangGT221; Aug 1, 2007 at 07:53 AM.