AFE cold air intake?
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AFE cold air intake?
Got my 450 about a month ago and have not been on here much lately. I know this has been talked about B4. Does it work?, any probs? warranty issues? Thanx 4 re-hashing! Tracy
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,501
Likes: 2
From: Henderson, NV
Originally Posted by Wrinkleface
Got my 450 about a month ago and have not been on here much lately. I know this has been talked about B4. Does it work?, any probs? warranty issues? Thanx 4 re-hashing! Tracy
I have the cold air intake on my truck, and i like it. Really brings out the sound of the turbos. I noticed a diffrence in the performance and fuel milage, about 1 MPG increase.
Junior User
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Magnusson Moss keeps manufacturers from denying warranty coverage if you don't use their filters and instead use a comparable filter. However, with these airboxes, you modify the original design and the filter comes no where close to what the OE filter from Donaldson does.
Too many modification companies push M&M to get us to spend our $. However, the law has nothing to do with modifying the vehicle from its original design and engineering.
Too many modification companies push M&M to get us to spend our $. However, the law has nothing to do with modifying the vehicle from its original design and engineering.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,501
Likes: 2
From: Henderson, NV
Originally Posted by thelogster
Magnusson Moss keeps manufacturers from denying warranty coverage if you don't use their filters and instead use a comparable filter. However, with these airboxes, you modify the original design and the filter comes no where close to what the OE filter from Donaldson does.
Too many modification companies push M&M to get us to spend our $. However, the law has nothing to do with modifying the vehicle from its original design and engineering.
Too many modification companies push M&M to get us to spend our $. However, the law has nothing to do with modifying the vehicle from its original design and engineering.
So, if the filter is meeting the manufacture's intended filteration, and the air box is still a cold air intake system, why would this not be comparable filter system?
Just curious?
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Joined: Aug 2005
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A Donaldson engineer tested these aftermarket mods and posted the findings below. I went on AFE and could not find anything where their posted their cleaning efficiency. Can you provide any link to where they officially poste it?
I have tested some of the washable/rechargeable type filters, but none
for this specific application. I can say that from the results of what
I have tested, that these type of filters have no place on MY
Powerstroke Diesel.
Normally, I will go and buy a system if the manufacturer says it
performs better than the standard OEM PowerCore in all areas. All of
those areas are:
1) Dust Loading: PowerCore in this application holds nearly 3 lbs of
dirt and that is pretty hard to beat with any element of similar size.
2) Filtering Efficiency: PowerCore is 99.99% efficient, I have tested
some popular competing elements in the past that have only achieved a
75% efficiency rating. This would mean when loaded to 3 lbs of dirt
like the PowerCore, it would let 3/4 lb (340 grams) of that dirt pass
directly to the engine(doing the math PowerCore stops all but about
1/10th of a gram). 100,000 rpm turbo blades do not like dirt.
3) Restriction: The OEM PowerCore is well under the Ford spec of 7" of
H2O restriction at the flow rate of 775 cfm. As I stated in a previous
post, I have tested competitors units that can't even flow what the OEM
PowerCore does when it is completly loaded and ready for a change.
Restriction normally works hand in hand with the above mentioned
efficiency. It is usually tough to get a low restriction without
sacrificing filtering efficiency. PowerCore has made this hurdle as it
packs a large amount of high efficiency media in a smaller package.
4) Cold Air Induction: Anyone who know anything about making horsepower
understands that cold air induction is a huge player in the horsepower
equation. Why do you think they make intercoolers? Yes, to cool the
air and make more power. Why then would you strap some goofy air
induction system onto your throttle body that breathes hot underhood
air? When the engine senses that hot air it will defuel to compensate
for the lower density and thus you will make less power.
5) Noise Attenuation: Not always a big player for everyone, but the OEM
PowerCore system does a good job at keeping a muzzle on the high
frequency turbo whine often heard with other systems installed. I have
heard folks on this forum who have said that at first they thought the
whining sound was cool, but then it wore on them and became rather
annoying so they switched back to the OEM system.
So what can we learn from all of this? I guess what we've been told all
alon is true, and that is that there is no such thing as a free lunch,
but there is such a thing called "value" and I think that is where the
PowerCore really shines. Yes, PowerCore does carry a small price
premium, but with that premium are many added benefits. Donaldson
company is not in the business of giving you the cheapest air filter for
your vehicle, but rather the best filter at the best value. If you want
the cheapest, why did you pay $50,000 for your truck?
I have tested some of the washable/rechargeable type filters, but none
for this specific application. I can say that from the results of what
I have tested, that these type of filters have no place on MY
Powerstroke Diesel.
Normally, I will go and buy a system if the manufacturer says it
performs better than the standard OEM PowerCore in all areas. All of
those areas are:
1) Dust Loading: PowerCore in this application holds nearly 3 lbs of
dirt and that is pretty hard to beat with any element of similar size.
2) Filtering Efficiency: PowerCore is 99.99% efficient, I have tested
some popular competing elements in the past that have only achieved a
75% efficiency rating. This would mean when loaded to 3 lbs of dirt
like the PowerCore, it would let 3/4 lb (340 grams) of that dirt pass
directly to the engine(doing the math PowerCore stops all but about
1/10th of a gram). 100,000 rpm turbo blades do not like dirt.
3) Restriction: The OEM PowerCore is well under the Ford spec of 7" of
H2O restriction at the flow rate of 775 cfm. As I stated in a previous
post, I have tested competitors units that can't even flow what the OEM
PowerCore does when it is completly loaded and ready for a change.
Restriction normally works hand in hand with the above mentioned
efficiency. It is usually tough to get a low restriction without
sacrificing filtering efficiency. PowerCore has made this hurdle as it
packs a large amount of high efficiency media in a smaller package.
4) Cold Air Induction: Anyone who know anything about making horsepower
understands that cold air induction is a huge player in the horsepower
equation. Why do you think they make intercoolers? Yes, to cool the
air and make more power. Why then would you strap some goofy air
induction system onto your throttle body that breathes hot underhood
air? When the engine senses that hot air it will defuel to compensate
for the lower density and thus you will make less power.
5) Noise Attenuation: Not always a big player for everyone, but the OEM
PowerCore system does a good job at keeping a muzzle on the high
frequency turbo whine often heard with other systems installed. I have
heard folks on this forum who have said that at first they thought the
whining sound was cool, but then it wore on them and became rather
annoying so they switched back to the OEM system.
So what can we learn from all of this? I guess what we've been told all
alon is true, and that is that there is no such thing as a free lunch,
but there is such a thing called "value" and I think that is where the
PowerCore really shines. Yes, PowerCore does carry a small price
premium, but with that premium are many added benefits. Donaldson
company is not in the business of giving you the cheapest air filter for
your vehicle, but rather the best filter at the best value. If you want
the cheapest, why did you pay $50,000 for your truck?
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,501
Likes: 2
From: Henderson, NV
Originally Posted by thelogster
A Donaldson engineer tested these aftermarket mods and posted the findings below. I went on AFE and could not find anything where their posted their cleaning efficiency. Can you provide any link to where they officially poste it?
I have tested some of the washable/rechargeable type filters, but none
for this specific application. I can say that from the results of what
I have tested, that these type of filters have no place on MY
Powerstroke Diesel.
Normally, I will go and buy a system if the manufacturer says it
performs better than the standard OEM PowerCore in all areas. All of
those areas are:
1) Dust Loading: PowerCore in this application holds nearly 3 lbs of
dirt and that is pretty hard to beat with any element of similar size.
2) Filtering Efficiency: PowerCore is 99.99% efficient, I have tested
some popular competing elements in the past that have only achieved a
75% efficiency rating. This would mean when loaded to 3 lbs of dirt
like the PowerCore, it would let 3/4 lb (340 grams) of that dirt pass
directly to the engine(doing the math PowerCore stops all but about
1/10th of a gram). 100,000 rpm turbo blades do not like dirt.
3) Restriction: The OEM PowerCore is well under the Ford spec of 7" of
H2O restriction at the flow rate of 775 cfm. As I stated in a previous
post, I have tested competitors units that can't even flow what the OEM
PowerCore does when it is completly loaded and ready for a change.
Restriction normally works hand in hand with the above mentioned
efficiency. It is usually tough to get a low restriction without
sacrificing filtering efficiency. PowerCore has made this hurdle as it
packs a large amount of high efficiency media in a smaller package.
4) Cold Air Induction: Anyone who know anything about making horsepower
understands that cold air induction is a huge player in the horsepower
equation. Why do you think they make intercoolers? Yes, to cool the
air and make more power. Why then would you strap some goofy air
induction system onto your throttle body that breathes hot underhood
air? When the engine senses that hot air it will defuel to compensate
for the lower density and thus you will make less power.
5) Noise Attenuation: Not always a big player for everyone, but the OEM
PowerCore system does a good job at keeping a muzzle on the high
frequency turbo whine often heard with other systems installed. I have
heard folks on this forum who have said that at first they thought the
whining sound was cool, but then it wore on them and became rather
annoying so they switched back to the OEM system.
So what can we learn from all of this? I guess what we've been told all
alon is true, and that is that there is no such thing as a free lunch,
but there is such a thing called "value" and I think that is where the
PowerCore really shines. Yes, PowerCore does carry a small price
premium, but with that premium are many added benefits. Donaldson
company is not in the business of giving you the cheapest air filter for
your vehicle, but rather the best filter at the best value. If you want
the cheapest, why did you pay $50,000 for your truck?
I have tested some of the washable/rechargeable type filters, but none
for this specific application. I can say that from the results of what
I have tested, that these type of filters have no place on MY
Powerstroke Diesel.
Normally, I will go and buy a system if the manufacturer says it
performs better than the standard OEM PowerCore in all areas. All of
those areas are:
1) Dust Loading: PowerCore in this application holds nearly 3 lbs of
dirt and that is pretty hard to beat with any element of similar size.
2) Filtering Efficiency: PowerCore is 99.99% efficient, I have tested
some popular competing elements in the past that have only achieved a
75% efficiency rating. This would mean when loaded to 3 lbs of dirt
like the PowerCore, it would let 3/4 lb (340 grams) of that dirt pass
directly to the engine(doing the math PowerCore stops all but about
1/10th of a gram). 100,000 rpm turbo blades do not like dirt.
3) Restriction: The OEM PowerCore is well under the Ford spec of 7" of
H2O restriction at the flow rate of 775 cfm. As I stated in a previous
post, I have tested competitors units that can't even flow what the OEM
PowerCore does when it is completly loaded and ready for a change.
Restriction normally works hand in hand with the above mentioned
efficiency. It is usually tough to get a low restriction without
sacrificing filtering efficiency. PowerCore has made this hurdle as it
packs a large amount of high efficiency media in a smaller package.
4) Cold Air Induction: Anyone who know anything about making horsepower
understands that cold air induction is a huge player in the horsepower
equation. Why do you think they make intercoolers? Yes, to cool the
air and make more power. Why then would you strap some goofy air
induction system onto your throttle body that breathes hot underhood
air? When the engine senses that hot air it will defuel to compensate
for the lower density and thus you will make less power.
5) Noise Attenuation: Not always a big player for everyone, but the OEM
PowerCore system does a good job at keeping a muzzle on the high
frequency turbo whine often heard with other systems installed. I have
heard folks on this forum who have said that at first they thought the
whining sound was cool, but then it wore on them and became rather
annoying so they switched back to the OEM system.
So what can we learn from all of this? I guess what we've been told all
alon is true, and that is that there is no such thing as a free lunch,
but there is such a thing called "value" and I think that is where the
PowerCore really shines. Yes, PowerCore does carry a small price
premium, but with that premium are many added benefits. Donaldson
company is not in the business of giving you the cheapest air filter for
your vehicle, but rather the best filter at the best value. If you want
the cheapest, why did you pay $50,000 for your truck?
http://www.afefilters.com/pg7.htm
Last edited by SANDDEMON08; Jul 10, 2007 at 12:44 PM.
Junior User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Driven in the same conditions, a 99.00% filter would pass
10 grams of contaminant through to the engine that would be trapped by the 6.0L OE filter, and a 95% filter would pass 50 grams!
Above was from the Donaldson engineer. So the AFE at 99.5% would pass 5 grams of crud in the same conditions. There also is a concern with sensor readings as the mod boxes change the airflow pattern. They came out with a 'fix' that turns off the reading. I'd rather not have to pay and have the item ignore the OE design and inputs. I'll stick to OE.
Above was from the Donaldson engineer. So the AFE at 99.5% would pass 5 grams of crud in the same conditions. There also is a concern with sensor readings as the mod boxes change the airflow pattern. They came out with a 'fix' that turns off the reading. I'd rather not have to pay and have the item ignore the OE design and inputs. I'll stick to OE.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,501
Likes: 2
From: Henderson, NV
Originally Posted by thelogster
Driven in the same conditions, a 99.00% filter would pass
10 grams of contaminant through to the engine that would be trapped by the 6.0L OE filter, and a 95% filter would pass 50 grams!
Above was from the Donaldson engineer. So the AFE at 99.5% would pass 5 grams of crud in the same conditions. There also is a concern with sensor readings as the mod boxes change the airflow pattern. They came out with a 'fix' that turns off the reading. I'd rather not have to pay and have the item ignore the OE design and inputs. I'll stick to OE.
Above was from the Donaldson engineer. So the AFE at 99.5% would pass 5 grams of crud in the same conditions. There also is a concern with sensor readings as the mod boxes change the airflow pattern. They came out with a 'fix' that turns off the reading. I'd rather not have to pay and have the item ignore the OE design and inputs. I'll stick to OE.
The Donaldson study you provided did not indicate if the 99.9 was based on fine or course dust which is a big difference.
The 6.0's my have had a problem that needed to be fixed, but the item in disscussion is a 6.4 AFE intake system. I have about 1800 miles on my 6.4 since i changed to the AFE system and have not had any problems with the MAF triping the check engine light.
Its my opinion that AFE did a good job addressing the common issues found with washable/reusable oil-impregnated cotton gauze filters . Im no pro on this but i've done my share of research on the aftermarket filters aviable.
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The AFE intake is awesome. We have them here at the Motorhaven shop if you're looking for it: http://motorhaven.autoanything.com/air-filters/61A2114A0A0.aspx
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