Is there a noticeable difference in the performance of the V10 at higher altitudes versus at sea level? Towing vs not towing?

 

Yes there is... We have been as high as 10k +feet. We are now in Colorado . There is a 3% los of power for every 1K feet of altitude from sea level. In our experience we do not notice a big effect on power loss when NOT towing..However when towing our 13K fifth wheel anchor we DO experience a significant loss of power..It seems to become more noticeable when we approach 5K feet or so. We have been able to get over ANY grade with no problem although it may be at 35/40MPH. If you live in high altitudes or pull heavy loads frequently in High Altitudes..you MIGHT want to reconsider the V-10. These are the facts as we have experienced them and is not a negative comment about the V-10.We like our V-10 it just huffs and puffs at high altitudes.

 

Might be possible if live in a higher altitude to have fuel/air mix adjusted for a little better preformance.

 

No matter what, there isn't as much air(in simplistic terms) at higher altitudes as there is at sea level. What ever tuning you do to improve performance will be affective(or not) at any altitude.

Now a blower or turbo added on will change things dramatically, which is the sole reason diesels work better at altitude.

 

There is a 3% los of power for every 1K feet of altitude from sea level.

I have heard that and believe it. Does anyone know the effect of elevation on a turbo diesel? 1% loss for every 1K feet elevation?

I live at 6,400ft in Colorado and can notice a power loss over the 10k passes. Once rented an Excursion in AZ and thought it had a V10, only had the V8 with 4.10's. My V10 has 3.73's. Anyway, the Excursion (with 10% lower gearing) seemed quicker than my F-250 (almost 20% elevation handicap).

If I were going to be towing a heavy trailer frequently over high passes I would strongly consider the 4.30 gears with a V10 or the turbo Diesel.

 

I have towed my trailer at sea level, 4000ft where I live, and over 11000ft on I70 going to Denver. At sea level I can run OD almost continuously. At 4000ft I must shift to direct for most upgrades of any length. At 11,500ft approaching Eisenhower tunnel on I70 I was in 1st gear for a short distance.
The only benifit of turbodiesel in my opinion is that it will make the same horsepower at 10000ft as it does at sea level. I still don't want a diesel.

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone. The reason this has come up, is that I am looking at travel trailers that weigh in at about 8,000 lbs. wet and loaded for mountain camping. I live at an elevation of about 5200 ft and will be camping at elevations probably not higher than 10,000 ft. My truck is an '05 F350 V10 4.10LS. Any foreseable issues with this set up?

 

I think you'll be fine with 8k in tow. I towed with a buddy this last weekend. I have a Dmax with a 10,000 + fiver and a small trailer with a bike and quad. He had a 8.1 with a 5-6000 lb bumper pull and a 3 rail bike trailer with 3 bikes. Going over the pass at 7000 ft I had the advantage, but not by much. Less weight and less frontall area on his trailer made it really close. It was kind of fun actually. Since I'm thinkinkin of going to a gasser, it was good to see it pull as well as it did.

 

I've got an 05 4.10 V10 also and have towed 10K from the lowlands of Oregon up over I-80 in Wyoming to Cheyenne. Yes, you can notice the power loss at higher altitudes. The aviation standard for normally aspirated piston aircraft is 3% per thousand. The Ford towing guide says to reduce GCVW by 2% per thousand.

But, the V10 still had enough to make 65-70 up Telegraph Hill east of Laramie, which is a 7 mile 5% climb from Laramie's 7400ft to 8600ft. That was hammer down at about 4700 RPM or so. At a much lower altitude, I climbed Emigrant Hill east of Pendleton, OR (about 8-10 mile 6% climb, peaking at about 4000ft) at 65MPH (on the straights only, curves are too deep for that speed) with some peddle left. So, while I can say that you can feel the power loss it hasn't dropped enough that I would consider it a problem. That said, I haven't made a run over I-70 with 10K to see what Eisenhower tunnel and Vail Pass (over and slightly short of 11000ft respectively) would pull like.

Uber-poster fredvon4 has a number of posts on running I-70 with his '05, you might look for those also. His posts on the good high altitude performance were a big reason I bought a V10.

 

That set-up should be fine. I've towed a TT at 5,000 ft where we live and over Sierra passes to 10K and have had no problems, maybe slow to 45 mph on 6-8% grades. Now I've got a 5th that runs about 12K loaded and changed the gears to 4.30's and can maintain 50-55 mph going up 8% grades to 9,800 from the valley elevation of 4,500.

 

Couldn't agree more.

Mine is screaming with a 20K GVW at 8000ft. I cant tell you what the grade is but @ 4200RPM floored in second, the best it will do is 45-50MPH and thats with 4.56s.

 

I never had to go slower than 55MPH with our 8K trailer last year in the rockies. Yeah, it winds up a little, but it sure does not act like it is struggling. The most interesting thing for us was that if we had to slow down for traffic, we could get back up to speed relatively quickly.

 

RAGaz asks; Is there a noticeable difference in the performance of the V10 at higher altitudes versus at sea level? Towing vs not towing?

Yes, there is, both towing and empty

However the quotes here about 3% loss per 1000 ft altitude are not relevant any more...those were common thoughts back in the carburator days with fixed fuel jets....

Truth is air density is less at high altitude and does have a negative effect on max power in a normaly aspirtated gas motor but not as dramatically as in days gone by....Fully computerized motors now also include a barometer to help compensate the fuel ratio and ignition timing....you will loose much more power from retarded ignition to prevent preignition then you will from low density air charge......

Fortunately the 3v V10 and low gears develops more then enough power to tow/haul heavy loads at high altitude because of the very broad power band the the large range of gear selections to keep the power up... remember the mighty V10 can spin up to 4800~5000 RPM all day long and there are only two down sides... NOISE and Fuel cost.....grin....

Way back when I got the 05, and long before the magic 150 hour break in new found power, we loaded the F350 to the gills with beer, ice, dogs, adult children, two Harleys in the bed and a old skool bumper drag rolling house grossly overloaded with water, food and toys! The whole shebang scaled at 22,847 just shy of the Ford max GCVWR of 23,000 pounds for my SRW long bed 4x4 F350.....

We ran north from Central Texas into New Mexico and made a run at Raton Pass (7800+/-)with the new truck only 1700 miles old... the 3v V10 and 5R110 never gave it a care...just exercised the tow haul mode on the Trany and ran the 415 cubes up to 4200 RPM and stayed between 55~70 MPH for the entire climb...

The next day still north bound in Colorado and looking forward to the trip west on I-70 up and over Vail Pass (el. 10,666 ft.)and Loveland Pass, elevation 11,990 ft via the Eisenhower Tunnel at 11,158 feet (3401 m), is the highest vehicular tunnel in the world

Yes the new truck was defiantly not at full power performance...But the machine never ever though of not making the grade.... several times I had to get my foot off the gas because I was running up the back side of a lot of other OTR trucks and similar tow rigs like mine that would pull out to pass a slow mover then get bogged down.... every time we pulled out to pass a slow mover we had plenty of power to complete the pass safely.

The greatest thrill on that trip out and back was the couple of times the slow poke was a Dodge or Ford Diesel powered truck with less of a load then we had and I passed them at will and was NOT leaving a billowing cloud of black smoke behind me....

At several look outs, or in the camp grounds I had to stop my setting up chores to give a grand tour of the mighty SuperDuty V10......Proud it made my wife and son.....watching dad honestly telling disbelievers that so far the fuel consumption was still over 7 MPG....got called a liar a few times...usualy by some old fart with a Dodge Cummins hauling a very large multiple slide out 5er who claimed to still get over 16MPG with his rig...you decide who the liar is....


Bottom line is....In my opinion if you live in a high altitude region and you tend to tow very heavy a majority of the time than a turbo diesel is the very best you can get....

But if you only occasionally need to be above 10,000 feet...the 415 gas motor will do the job just fine.... in Fact My 2001 F250 Platinum 2v w 3.73s used to pull those passes twice a year and that was the truck that convinced me that I no longer NEEDED a diesel.... The 3v with Torqshift trans and lower gears just makes the task all that much easier.....

 

Great response, Fred. Thanks for the insight everyone! Makes me a whole lot more comfortable when shopping for the right trailer to suit the family's needs.

 

RAGaz

Height and shape of the trailer will screw you up more then total weight will

Try to stay in the 9,000-11,000 loaded weight range

Be very realistic about what your wife and family will want to load it out with

Hopefully Don aka wrenchtraveler will chime in but if he does not ---- search a few years back for his excellent posts on the trailer he found.....his truck is exactly like yours and he tow all over west coast, canada, and alaska in the mountains and has several very good posts on the subject