Nitrous on a 351?
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Junior User
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Pocono Mountains, PA
Nitrous on a 351?
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 28-Oct-02 AT 00:24 AM (EST)]I've been looking at the different kits out there and I'm seriously considering asking Santa for a bottle for my baby ~LOL~
I figure a 100 HP kick oughta put me at just over 400 HP with my current setup. From what I've read the 100 HP boost is safe for this motor...
Anyone running nitrous here? I know that there are a lot of considerations and it'll probably end up costing me (er..or Santa) about 500 to do this but the possibilities are extremely tempting <Grin!>
Am I alone in this or have some of you already done this on a 351w? Is it a pain in the butt to do all that needs doing or is it as simple as it sounds? My rig specs are below..
80 F250 Ranger 4X4 cab on 87 Chassis --
1984 351W - Mallory Uni-Lite, MSD wires, Offy intake, 600 Holley, K&N filter, Shorty headers - Dual *cat-less* pipes with twin Flowmaster 50's, C-6 trans, American Racing 767's 33x12.5x16.5 sneakers-- No emissions crap at all(emissions exempt)
Alpine stereo with 400W Jensen Amp and 2 x 300 Watt "boom boxes" behind seat - 2 x 180 watt Xplod's in the doors..
Still workin' on it!
I figure a 100 HP kick oughta put me at just over 400 HP with my current setup. From what I've read the 100 HP boost is safe for this motor...
Anyone running nitrous here? I know that there are a lot of considerations and it'll probably end up costing me (er..or Santa) about 500 to do this but the possibilities are extremely tempting <Grin!>
Am I alone in this or have some of you already done this on a 351w? Is it a pain in the butt to do all that needs doing or is it as simple as it sounds? My rig specs are below..
80 F250 Ranger 4X4 cab on 87 Chassis --
1984 351W - Mallory Uni-Lite, MSD wires, Offy intake, 600 Holley, K&N filter, Shorty headers - Dual *cat-less* pipes with twin Flowmaster 50's, C-6 trans, American Racing 767's 33x12.5x16.5 sneakers-- No emissions crap at all(emissions exempt)
Alpine stereo with 400W Jensen Amp and 2 x 300 Watt "boom boxes" behind seat - 2 x 180 watt Xplod's in the doors..
Still workin' on it!
Freshman User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 48
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Nitrous on a 351?
ive never run nitrous but i am going to very soon i would suggest looking at the edelbrock nitrous kit that gives you an adjustable 50, 75, or 100 HP gain very reasonably priced at $350 all you have to do is fill the tank all else is included thats the kit im going to buy, ive heard all that matters in being able to run nitrous without damage is to have a well balanced strong bottom end and FORGED PISTONS ARE A MUST!!!!!!! or dont even think about it GOOD LUCK!!!
Freshman User
Joined: Oct 2002
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Nitrous on a 351?
i just did some checking and the kit is edelbrock part # 70001 for sandard flange carbs and #70002 for spread bore carbs both are $350 at www.summitracing.com and come with everything you need for installation it has to be the best priced kit ive seen
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 662
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From: CA
Nitrous on a 351?
NOS told me that stock aluminum cast pistons will work on a stock engine with 9.5 or less compression, and a 100 hp or less kit. But I've always been suspicious! Anybody out there know more?
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Junior User
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From: Pocono Mountains, PA
Nitrous on a 351?
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 28-Oct-02 AT 04:20 PM (EST)]On the $350.00 kits.. I see quite a few of them in Summit's newest catalog but I figure that there will be a few other expenses involved as well..
New higher pressure electric fuel pump with two outputs to replace the 5 to 7 pound NAPA model on the frame rail I'm running now plus a 7 pound regulator for the carb...(probably around 100 bucks by itself I think)
Maybe a couple new in-tank pumps for my dual tanks...maybe even one of those 38 gallon tanks someone mentioned off a wrecked Bronco to replace the rear tank.
Some new metal line...
A few other odds and ends I'm sure.
That's why I figured about 500 bills for the deal and I'm thinking that's probably a little low. Hmm... Better start being extremely nice to Mrs Claus huh??
Wonder what's on her list besides trading this 46 year old kid in on two 23 year olds..LOL!
80 F250 Ranger 4X4 cab on 87 Chassis --
1984 351W - Mallory Uni-Lite, MSD wires, Offy intake, 600 Holley, K&N filter, Shorty headers - Dual Exhaust with twin Flowmaster 50's, C-6 trans, American Racing 767's 33x12.5x16.5 sneakers--
Alpine stereo with 400W Jensen Amp and 2 x 300 Watt "boom boxes" behind seat - 2 x 180 watt Xplod's in the doors..
Still workin' on it!
New higher pressure electric fuel pump with two outputs to replace the 5 to 7 pound NAPA model on the frame rail I'm running now plus a 7 pound regulator for the carb...(probably around 100 bucks by itself I think)
Maybe a couple new in-tank pumps for my dual tanks...maybe even one of those 38 gallon tanks someone mentioned off a wrecked Bronco to replace the rear tank.
Some new metal line...
A few other odds and ends I'm sure.
That's why I figured about 500 bills for the deal and I'm thinking that's probably a little low. Hmm... Better start being extremely nice to Mrs Claus huh??
Wonder what's on her list besides trading this 46 year old kid in on two 23 year olds..LOL!
80 F250 Ranger 4X4 cab on 87 Chassis --
1984 351W - Mallory Uni-Lite, MSD wires, Offy intake, 600 Holley, K&N filter, Shorty headers - Dual Exhaust with twin Flowmaster 50's, C-6 trans, American Racing 767's 33x12.5x16.5 sneakers--
Alpine stereo with 400W Jensen Amp and 2 x 300 Watt "boom boxes" behind seat - 2 x 180 watt Xplod's in the doors..
Still workin' on it!
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 51
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From: Pocono Mountains, PA
Nitrous on a 351?
Hmm.. upon further reading they say that you only need a pump upgrade for 175 horse boost and up...
Shouldn't need one for 100 HP
This is looking a bit more do-able the more I read!
Shouldn't need one for 100 HP
This is looking a bit more do-able the more I read!
Freshman User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 48
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Nitrous on a 351?
ive talked to many people on the pistons and you cannot use stock pistons the increased heat caused by burning nitrous will burn right through the cast pistons in no time that is why forged are needed, forged pistons are 65%stronger than cast and hypertinectic pistons if you are going to run nitrous you must have forged or a rebuild is going to be enevitable not too far down the road. Im not trying to sell you pistons so im going to lie its just the truth.
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Junior User
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From: Pocono Mountains, PA
Nitrous on a 351?
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 29-Oct-02 AT 08:43 AM (EST)]>ive talked to many people on the pistons and you cannot use
>stock pistons the increased heat caused by burning nitrous
>will burn right through the cast pistons in no time that is
>why forged are needed, forged pistons are 65%stronger than
>cast and hypertinectic pistons if you are going to run
>nitrous you must have forged or a rebuild is going to be
>enevitable not too far down the road. Im not trying to sell
>you pistons so im going to lie its just the truth.
Hmm.. Ok I hear ya and I appreciate your input...
Question.. Do you have any first hand knowledge of this damage or just hearsay?
I'm thinking from what I've read so far that as long as you're not running a maxxed out, race type boost it should be fine. I've seen a few folks around here that have that setup and don't know one yet that's blown a motor as a result. In fact my buddy has a 93 5.0 'Stang and dropped a 125 HP boost on it and it too seems to be fine.
Anyone here have any actual first hand experience with destroying cast pistons with Nitous?
80 F250 Ranger 4X4 cab on 87 Chassis --
1984 351W - Mallory Uni-Lite, MSD wires, Offy intake, 600 Holley, K&N filter, Shorty headers - Dual Exhaust with twin Flowmaster 50's, C-6 trans, American Racing 767's 33x12.5x16.5 sneakers--
Alpine stereo with 400W Jensen Amp and 2 x 300 Watt "boom boxes" behind seat - 2 x 180 watt Xplod's in the doors..
Still workin' on it!
>stock pistons the increased heat caused by burning nitrous
>will burn right through the cast pistons in no time that is
>why forged are needed, forged pistons are 65%stronger than
>cast and hypertinectic pistons if you are going to run
>nitrous you must have forged or a rebuild is going to be
>enevitable not too far down the road. Im not trying to sell
>you pistons so im going to lie its just the truth.
Hmm.. Ok I hear ya and I appreciate your input...
Question.. Do you have any first hand knowledge of this damage or just hearsay?
I'm thinking from what I've read so far that as long as you're not running a maxxed out, race type boost it should be fine. I've seen a few folks around here that have that setup and don't know one yet that's blown a motor as a result. In fact my buddy has a 93 5.0 'Stang and dropped a 125 HP boost on it and it too seems to be fine.
Anyone here have any actual first hand experience with destroying cast pistons with Nitous?
80 F250 Ranger 4X4 cab on 87 Chassis --
1984 351W - Mallory Uni-Lite, MSD wires, Offy intake, 600 Holley, K&N filter, Shorty headers - Dual Exhaust with twin Flowmaster 50's, C-6 trans, American Racing 767's 33x12.5x16.5 sneakers--
Alpine stereo with 400W Jensen Amp and 2 x 300 Watt "boom boxes" behind seat - 2 x 180 watt Xplod's in the doors..
Still workin' on it!
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,624
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From: Missouri
Nitrous on a 351?
Nitrous will destroy any engine if not setup correctly but cast pistons can handle 100HP or less on one that is. The reason people loose their engines to nitrous is caused by only a few things. Loss of correct fuel supply, detonation and running to big of a shot. I have seen several engines down at the strip with stock pistons running 150HP shots with no problems. Now if you are lets say rebuilding your engine and planning to use nitrous then it would be kinda dumb not to at least put some hyper pistons in. The bad rep that nitrous has is from incorrect use. I plan on a 150HP shot someday so when I rebuilt my engine it got forged slugs.
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Junior User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 51
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From: Pocono Mountains, PA
Nitrous on a 351?
Thanks Ratsmoker.. You confirmed most of what I was thinking.
I suppose the trick would be the timing adjustment.. How much retard would it need.. at that retard setting would it run like crap without the bottle...?? ....How the heck would I get my Mallory Uni-Lite to back off when the NO2 kicks in.. I certainly don't want to "de-tune" completely as I would only hit the bottle under full throttle which is a relatively short period of time in the overall scheme of things...
Also yes.. I've re-thought the fuel issue as well and figure that a new dual output pump with a good pressure regulator setup would be a sound investment to keep from running way too lean and melting a piston or three.
Any more input would certainly be appreciated!
Keep the shiny side up..
Larry
80 F250 Ranger 4X4 cab on 87 Chassis --
1984 351W - Mallory Uni-Lite, MSD wires, Offy intake, 600 Holley, K&N filter, Shorty headers - Dual Exhaust with twin Flowmaster 50's, C-6 trans, American Racing 767's 33x12.5x16.5 sneakers--
Alpine stereo with 400W Jensen Amp and 2 x 300 Watt "boom boxes" behind seat - 2 x 180 watt Xplod's in the doors..
Still workin' on it!
I suppose the trick would be the timing adjustment.. How much retard would it need.. at that retard setting would it run like crap without the bottle...?? ....How the heck would I get my Mallory Uni-Lite to back off when the NO2 kicks in.. I certainly don't want to "de-tune" completely as I would only hit the bottle under full throttle which is a relatively short period of time in the overall scheme of things...
Also yes.. I've re-thought the fuel issue as well and figure that a new dual output pump with a good pressure regulator setup would be a sound investment to keep from running way too lean and melting a piston or three.
Any more input would certainly be appreciated!
Keep the shiny side up..
Larry
80 F250 Ranger 4X4 cab on 87 Chassis --
1984 351W - Mallory Uni-Lite, MSD wires, Offy intake, 600 Holley, K&N filter, Shorty headers - Dual Exhaust with twin Flowmaster 50's, C-6 trans, American Racing 767's 33x12.5x16.5 sneakers--
Alpine stereo with 400W Jensen Amp and 2 x 300 Watt "boom boxes" behind seat - 2 x 180 watt Xplod's in the doors..
Still workin' on it!
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
From: Orlando
Nitrous on a 351?
I am running NO2 on my rig.
I started out running a 75HP system on my stock 351W. I was not running a low fuel pressure cut off since it didn't come with the system. I upgraded to a 100HP shot and one day blew the motor. If I had been monitoring fuel pressure I could have prevented the damage. Add a fuel pressure switch or gauge.
Now I have a 460 with forged pistons and a 150HP shot. I hve the MSD ignition wih the add-on retard box. When I activate the nitrous the ignition retards 4*. I also have a in the cab fuel pressure gauge and the MSD knock sensor. I am running one step colder on the plugs.
I will probably install the Eldelbrock Air?fuel ration monitor and step up to the 175HP shot later this year. One problem with the NO2 kits is that the jetting they recommend is not always right on. You could be lean or rich running the jets like the manufacture says. Make sure you pull plugs and check for yourself. Usually the manufacturer will set it up rich and you will not get advertized HP increase. There are some good sites on how to tune NO2.
Good luck
Mike
I started out running a 75HP system on my stock 351W. I was not running a low fuel pressure cut off since it didn't come with the system. I upgraded to a 100HP shot and one day blew the motor. If I had been monitoring fuel pressure I could have prevented the damage. Add a fuel pressure switch or gauge.
Now I have a 460 with forged pistons and a 150HP shot. I hve the MSD ignition wih the add-on retard box. When I activate the nitrous the ignition retards 4*. I also have a in the cab fuel pressure gauge and the MSD knock sensor. I am running one step colder on the plugs.
I will probably install the Eldelbrock Air?fuel ration monitor and step up to the 175HP shot later this year. One problem with the NO2 kits is that the jetting they recommend is not always right on. You could be lean or rich running the jets like the manufacture says. Make sure you pull plugs and check for yourself. Usually the manufacturer will set it up rich and you will not get advertized HP increase. There are some good sites on how to tune NO2.
Good luck
Mike
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 51
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From: Pocono Mountains, PA
Nitrous on a 351?
Thanks Mike,
I appreciate the input!
80 F250 Ranger 4X4 cab on 87 Chassis --
1984 351W - Mallory Uni-Lite, MSD wires, Offy intake, 600 Holley, K&N filter, Shorty headers - Dual Exhaust with twin Flowmaster 50's, C-6 trans, American Racing 767's 33x12.5x16.5 sneakers--
Alpine stereo with 400W Jensen Amp and 2 x 300 Watt "boom boxes" behind seat - 2 x 180 watt Xplod's in the doors..
Still workin' on it!
I appreciate the input!
80 F250 Ranger 4X4 cab on 87 Chassis --
1984 351W - Mallory Uni-Lite, MSD wires, Offy intake, 600 Holley, K&N filter, Shorty headers - Dual Exhaust with twin Flowmaster 50's, C-6 trans, American Racing 767's 33x12.5x16.5 sneakers--
Alpine stereo with 400W Jensen Amp and 2 x 300 Watt "boom boxes" behind seat - 2 x 180 watt Xplod's in the doors..
Still workin' on it!
Junior User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton Canada
Nitrous on a 351?
If your going to run cast pistons, don't run anything more than a 100 hp shot keep the fuel on the rich side to be safe. Recomended timing retard is 2deg. per 50hp gain. 100hp gain would be 4deg. retard.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,558
Likes: 45
From: Concord, NC
Nitrous on a 351?
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 24-Dec-02 AT 02:21 PM (EST)]http://www.kb-silvolite.com/page14.htm
[link:www.idavette.net/hib/nitrous.htm|www.idavette.net/hib/nitrous.htm]
Here's a couple pages I've found that may be helpful to your decision. Running nitrous effectively gives the engine more oxygen, so you must have additional fuel to compensate for that in order not to lean out the mixture to the extent that you burn the valves or pistons. Hope these things help, and happy holidays.
[link:www.idavette.net/hib/nitrous.htm|www.idavette.net/hib/nitrous.htm]
Here's a couple pages I've found that may be helpful to your decision. Running nitrous effectively gives the engine more oxygen, so you must have additional fuel to compensate for that in order not to lean out the mixture to the extent that you burn the valves or pistons. Hope these things help, and happy holidays.
Elder User
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 692
Likes: 1
From: Coon Rapids, MN
Nitrous on a 351?
The reason why your buddy was able to successfully add 125 shot of nitrous was because the mustang 5.0 engines came stock with forged pistons in the late 80's and early 90's. The truck engines never acquired such a modification from the factory.