have a "mint" low mileage "cream puff" '05 V-10 4wd. Spring rates are WAY too soft for the kind of driving and towing I do. As noted in an earlier "post", can't imagine what FORD was thinking, taking a one ton chassis that is obviously going to see a lot of people using it for towing, and 1) installing WAY too soft springs and 2) no sway bar.

Anyway, rear riding height and excessive sway now resolved with a Helwig sway bar and air bags.

Front also way too soft - "bottoms out" with a crash on our miserable roads. What about AIR SHOCKS to raise the FRONT up about an in., and get the extra spring effect thru the air pressure in the air shocks ? Anyone tried this ? Anyone know what air shock will work on the front ?

DONT tell me to go changing springs. I LIKE soft springs. I LIKE a nice soft ride. I just want to be able to control the riding height !

 

well, if you dont want everyone to tell you to change springs, the only other way is to get a lift kit that has longer front shackles. that way, you get height, but keep the stock springs. it will lift the truck 3-4". donahoe make the best kit.$$$$ and the only way to control the ride height is to get a complete set of air bags. like the kelderman kit. but its BIG $$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

you did not discuss my question. My question is about AIR SHOCKS. Common ordinary avail-just-about-everywhere shock absorbers with an air bellows. Avail. just about any auto parts store - yes, they are SUPPOSED to be only used on the rear. My guess is about 20 lbs air pressure will give me the 1" or so additional space between the frame and the front spring "bumper".

So - again, anyone tried that ? If so..do you have a part number?

I am sure that if I pull one of the front shocks off, and walk into my local AutoZone, Cheif, etc, the pimply-faced monkey-slapping snot nose will look open-mouthed and puzzled if I cant (and WONT) tell him what I want them for...!

 

Well if it is the "bottoming" out that bothers you you could try trimming the bumpstops a bit. A lot of folks have done that to give the spring more travel.

Air shocks would work, I suppose. Never heard of them on the front but you could always see if there's a pair made that would match up. Since I've never heard of anyone using them I cannot provide any part numbers or brand.

Taking the new shackle route...you could get shackles from an F-250/350. I believe they are taller and would give you the inch or so you are needing.

 

How is it that you can criticize the Ford engineers for designing a full size vehicle with springs that you described as way too soft for the type of driving you do, and then say that you like it, and don't want to change the springs?

Air shocks that were designed to work with rear springs will wear very quickly if used under the front end of a vehicle this big, See while you are creating a greater amount of resistance with an air spring, the shock valving will be all wrong. It does not change at all when air is added, and you will end up with a shock that has to compromise ride when it is full, or may not ride well when it is empty.
Load capacities of front and rear springs are very different so selecting the right damper is pretty critical. Purchasing the wrong shock may cause the truck to "buckboard" on the highway, or just wear the shock pre-maturely since it is working very hard trying to hold up all of the weight of the front end. If the shock is responsible for holding up most of the weight, it can't last very long.

 

i'm done. i think what he wants to hear is "YEAH, THATS A GREAT IDEA. I CANT BELIEVE THAT I DIDN'T THINK OF THAT. I THINK EVERYONE SHOULD DO IT." i think we have already given him a couple different options. let him roll the way he wants to.. good luck with whatever you wind up doing. hope it works well for you.

 

Shocks mounts aren't made for supporting vehicle weight. Air SPRINGS might be what your lookin for. Air Lift or Firestones.

 

You aren't implying that the mounts would not hold are you? I would bet my left nut* that they are strong enough. Especially since the leaf will still be supporting weight.















*Being neutered, I don't need it anyway.

 

RE : my "bottoming / too soft" issue

You guys are right - I wasnt making all that much sense in my comments, in the sense that I should have been more clear, and possibly a bit more technical, in explaining what is bothering me ! I LIKE soft springs. I like the UNLOADED spring-rate soft. What I should have typed is that I wish the vehicle had a more aggressive VARIABLE rate spring. Anotherwards, a spring that would be as soft as mine are when UNloaded, but as the load was added, became "stiffer". Given the little I know about spring dynamics, it may well not be practical to make a spring that will be as soft as I like em, when UN-loaded, yet have the stiff-ness come in when the axle movements get more dramatic.

Also, I dont know enough about the physics involved in axle movement, to know whether some of you guys are on the right track with your concern about front axle movements are different from rear axle movements.

If you guys are correct, then this idea of using air shocks on the front axle (since air shocks are designed for REAR axle movements) would be a bad idea, which means I should listen to those of you who suggest the "lifting" alternative.

In my ignorance of the physics involved, I am going to HOPE you are wrong, and that my idea would work, for the following reason - wouldnt the loads be HARDER on a shock when mounted on the REAR axle ? After all, you not only have the weight of the vehicle taking a pounding from axle movements - on the rear, you also have the weight of the tounge load.

The point about shock mounts possibly being too weak to support the weight of the vehicle is a good one. I agree about the concern for two reasons - first of all, suppose you are right about that, and secondly, "un-loading" the front spring to any serious degree, could find me monkeying around with steering dynamics, in that the now un-loaded front springs could lead to squirrely steering issues.

My response to that concern is - be assured I was not thinking of getting too aggressive with front air shock air pressure. All I want to do is SLIGHTLY unload a SMALL portion of the weight - to get that 1" or so additional distance between the front axle "bumpers" and the chassis. Given how soft those front springs are, I am not sure that I'd be putting off the front springs much more than a couple of hundred pounds "load", IF that, on each front shock.

Again, PROVIDED I dont get too aggressive on air pressure!

O.K...guys - I DO appreciate all your suggestions. Including the alternate proposals. Guess what I am going to have to do, is take a front shock off, and measure its travel, and see what is available in air shocks that have at least as much travel.

 

You won't get any steering issues. You aren't taking any weight off the front tires. In fact, you aren't taking any weight off the front springs. Since they are still UNDER the shocks the weight supported will remain the same.

All you are effectively doing is increasing the length of the shock and making it able to adjust ride height.

The shock will not be supporting all the weight of the front end. It WILL have a higher weight load on it in its static position than the stock shock would. The mounts will not be holding anymore weight unless in the static, unmoving position. And once underway, they will have to "support" the same loads as a regular shock. Nothing changes in that arena. You aren't adding weight but you may be increasing the dampening rates which could lead to more of the spring energy getting to the mount if the new shock cannot absorb and dissipate it.

Front vs. rear axle movements on a solid axle truck is a moot point. Both axles only moves on a vertical plane. Only difference is that the wheels turn and that shouldn't make a difference when adjusting ride height.

Biggest challenge I see is getting the pressures equal so that your left to right height is the same. I'm sure, just like airbags, you could make one fill valve by combining the two with tubing and such.

All in all, I still say you best bet new shackles or cut bumpstops. Both have been done. I'd be concerned about the dampening rates available in those air-shocks. From what I know of them, the dampening rates are real crappy.

 

thanks Monsta !

My reasoning says you are right, and thus adding air shocks to give an inch more front riding height wont hurt a thing. Yes, good point abot equalization - I do NOT claim to be the smartest guy around - but just like I have a "T" in the air line for the rear air bags, of course I will have a "T" in the front air shocks to make sure they are equal.

I am not clear why I shoudl worry about "dampening" rate. My (admittedly limited !) understanding of shock absorbers, is that, at least theoretically, THEY ARE NOT SHOCK ABSORBERS ! Their function is to "dampen" re-bound. It appears to me that in most vehicles, there is far less movement up-and-down in a front suspension than in a rear.

Thus it would seem to me, that the dampening rate of a rear shock should be less, for any given inch of suspension travel, than a front shock. Typically, the after-market air shocks have MUCH more dampening than the stock shocks. That additional "dampening" may compensate, and leave me with just what I want - meaning, little change in the "apparent softness" of my front suspension, but riding just higher off the "spring bottomer", to make me happy.

I will pull a front shock off and go to my local auto parts store next week. Will let you guys know how it works out.

 

Plumbing the bags independently provides added roll control. A 'T' in the line between air bags or air shocks allows air to flow from one side to the other in a turn, exaggerating the roll effect you should actually be trying to minimize. It's not the usual way to plumb the bags.

Do some research on suspension mods. Make sure what you're doing is the best to obtain your goals.

Take Care

 

that is an interesting thought ( that I would have better roll control if I kept the air circuits all SEPARATE for all my air bags.) ..hmmm.....

 

The dampen both rebound and compression.

My feeling is that air shocks are over dampened, meaning: they are very stiff. This could transmit not only more energy to the frame but could also create unpredictable vibrations at speed.

 

air shocks dont really dampen. if you are lifting the front with the air shocks, they are not going to dampen anything. no shocks will change ride height. they do exactly what they are named. SHOCK ABSORBERS... not shock lifters or supporters. they just dampen the bounce you get from your springs. air shocks wont do that.