[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 09-Oct-01 AT 05:42 PM (EST)[/font][p]Rdeat183 is posting alot on this board saying that chips will void your warranty. I'd like to know where he/she is getting their info from.

 

The DiabloChip will not void or affect the factory warranty in any way. This is a very misunderstood subject in the aftermarket customer circles. There is a law protecting vehicle owners from just this fraudulent behavior practiced by some automotive dealers. The Magnusson-Moss Warranty- Federal Trade commission Improvement Act of 1975. Under the Magnusson-Moss Act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not void a vehicle manufacturer’s original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicles warranty or that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure. The easiest way to check this is to look in your owner’s manual under, "what is not covered".


Ken Payne
[img src="/dcforum/User_files/webmaster/usaflag.gif" valign=top align=left] Ford Truck Enthusiasts Admin

 

Ken: This may help.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty/undermag.htm
If the chip voids warranty, then you had better remove those Non-Ford mud flaps, bug shields, and ALL other Non-Ford parts.
To NON BELIEVERS:Just read the FEDERAL LAW and quit spreading gossip.
Thanks
Danny
2001 Cobra-Lazer Red
3:73 Gears
Steeda Tri-Ax Short Shifter
Bassanni X-Pipe
DiabloSport Chipped
DenseCharger

 

Funny thing, just sold a chip to a guy today who's dealer wanted $500 to sell and install him a Superchip. If it voids warrantees, someone had better tell this dealer!!! :-)

If I recall correctly, Danny sells chips to several dealerships. Nope, they don't void warrantees. :-)

Ken Payne
[img src="/dcforum/User_files/webmaster/usaflag.gif" valign=top align=left] Ford Truck Enthusiasts Admin

 

Ken: I install for 5 Ford dealers in SW Louisiana. They sell an F-150 they call a GT. The F-150 GT includes a Flowmaster Dual outlet exhaust system, a K&N Air Filter and a Performance Chip. Some of these vehicles are even financed through Ford Motor Credit, with the chip listed in the sale. Check out the link that I listed above, it will give you the Law as written.
Thanks
Danny
2001 Cobra-Lazer Red
3:73 Gears
Steeda Tri-Ax Short Shifter
Bassanni X-Pipe
DiabloSport Chipped
DenseCharger

 

Yes I've posted a lot because I am mad at just about everyone for all the gross, misstated claims made on this site, on the phone and otherwise. I own a 2000 F250 SD V10. I purchased a Vortech SC from Outlaw Performance and a Banks exhaust system. This cost almost $5,000 dollars by the time I received it (installation not included). A Chip is installed in order for the truck to run right. At each opportunity for purchase, i.e. every vendor, the question of warranty was asked of EACH manufacturer. In other words will the installation of (any of the above) void my warranty???? The answer in every case, INCLUDING DIABLO AND SUPERCHIPS was NO! Fast forward 90 days later. A loud ticking noise caused a trip to my local Ford dealer for remedy. It sounded like a small exhaust leak from a header gasket or a tappett. The dealer gave it back and said it was a "normal noise/resonnance from the injectors and the "aftermarket headers". They also stated that "I hope you know that installing the computer chip has voided your warranty".
Well I shot back with the often quoted, to me , line about the fact that the Magnasson/Moss warranty act prohibits this because the addition or use of aftermarket products cannot void a warranty. Well, FORD has issued a bulletin, NATIONWIDE, that states "the addition of or use of any computer chip, supercharger, turbocharger...will make the factory warranty null and void". I drove my truck 90 miles last week to another city and after exiting the freeway noticed a terrible exhaust noise. That pinging noise I had "imagined" was a spark plug that had come out of the head and stripped the threads plus busted the coil. Since I no longer have a warranty (6 months old, 17,000 miles), and since FORD would not heli-coil it, I spent $2,300 for a new head to be replaced.

Where do I get my information? The dealership(s) above, FORD MOTOR COMPANY and THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION. FORD has made it clear that anything that it considers "performance altering" will, in fact VOID THE WARRANTY!!!

I am a member here but can't log in all of a sudden. I thought you were better than that Ken, or are you just making so much money on chips that you don't want the truth known?

Ron Deaton

 

Give me the bulletin number. The Diablo regional distributor told me that Diablo would love to know about this type of thing because they consider it illegal and they would contact Ford about it if Ford issued a written statement about it. The fact of the matter is that MANY Ford dealers install chips. I just had a customer buy a Superchip from me last week because his dealer wanted $500 to install one in his new truck. Why would a dealer install a product if it voids the warranty? It sounds to me that the problem here is that a dealer wanted to get out of warranty work, not surprising given the flat-rate problems Ford dealer techs have had in the past few years.

If Ford has issued such a statement, then synthetic oil, hotter plugs, after-market air filters, mufflers, throttle bodies, MAFs, pulleys, tires, etc. would void the warranty. Fat chance. The SEMA show is coming up and I'm sure SEMA would like to see this bulletin since they are the largest aftermarket group, representing over 45,000 auotmotive companies world-wide.

As to why you had posting ability removed, its because rather than give a forthright accounting of your experience, you took it upon yourself to follow up every post here a repeated blanket statement telling everyone they would void your warranty. In other words, you were not behaving in the most civil manner in which you dealt with it here. A single thread started on the topic would have been sufficient and we would have addressed it directly in that thread (and we did address it in one of the follow-ups). Others have had postings on a variety of topics removed in the past, both "good" and "bad" topics --- for posting the same post repeatedly. Its considered bad form and spam.

And no, I'm not making a ton of money from chip sales. They make up a small percentage of our orders and we'd get along fine without selling them. We started selling them as part of our effort to offer more products for newer trucks since we had previously concentrated on the older trucks.

I take the good and the bad here. If you want to discuss it here, fine, but don't spam my boards because you're pissed off ---- that's why your posting was disabled. We made no misstated claims --- as a matter of fact you did not buy a chip from FTE, at least not as "Ron Deaton."

Ken Payne
[img src="/dcforum/User_files/webmaster/usaflag.gif" valign=top align=left] Ford Truck Enthusiasts Admin

 

There comes a point in time that common sense should take over for any individual. Ford dealers usually use a small amount of common sense when considering warranty implications. If you believed that adding a Supercharger would not affect your warranty, you need a reality check. You are trying to compare apples to watermelons. A chip simply changes a few operating parameters on the engine, a blower adds several pounds of boost to an engine, adding tremendous stress to all working parts of an engine. You must use a small amount of common sense when making mods to any vehicle. Adding a 50 pound bed liner will not affect your warranty, but add a 6000 pound bed liner and see what your dealer has to say. By its nature a Supercharger adds 40-60% more horsepower, of course they will void your warranty. I cannot imagine ANY Supercharger Dealer that would tell anyone otherwise. If the S/C dealer told you this, I would have his butt in court paying for the repairs to this engine. If not, John Forces' funny car would carry full factory warranty, use common sense. If chips and K&N filters voided your warranty, both companies would have been out of business long ago. This sounds like about half of the pertinent information was shared. I can guarantee that there is MUCH more to this story that we do not know about.


Thanks
Danny
2001 Cobra-Lazer Red
3:73 Gears
Steeda Tri-Ax Short Shifter
Bassanni X-Pipe
DiabloSport Chipped
DenseCharger

 

Read the signature below. This car had warranty work done on it a week ago. Look at the list of mods. The work was done at Shetler Ford in Sulphur, Louisiana. All mods were performed by their Ford Certified technician. One small difference, I was smart enough to use a bit of COMMON SENSE, before each and every mod, I called Ford SVT and spoke to Mike M., wrote down the time and date of our conversation and what was talked about in regards to warranty and mods. So when the car went to the shop, we called Mike, reminded him of our conversation, date and time, about mods and warranty. No problems!!!!! Guess what, he told me if we installed a Supercharger on my Cobra, it would void the warranty, duhhhhhh!
Thanks
Danny
2001 Cobra-Lazer Red
3:73 Gears
Steeda Tri-Ax Short Shifter
Bassanni X-Pipe
Bassani Cat-Back
DiabloSport Chipped
DenseCharger CAI
Pro-Flow MAF
300.7 RWHP
297 Ft/Lb Torque

 

Here's Ford's bulletin concerning after market chips:

------------
12991
P0605 (ROM TEST ERROR) - CHECK FOR 'AFTER MARKET ' DEVICES
SOME OBDII VEHICLES MAY EXHIBIT A KEY ONENGINE OFF SELF TEST DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE OF P0605. THIS MAY BE CAUSED IF AN AFTER MARKET PERFORMANCE DEVICE IS INSSTALLED ON THE POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) . TYPICALLY THESE DEVICES ARE INSTALLED BETWEEN THE PCM & VEHICLE HARNESS OR CONNECTED TO THE J3 CONNECTOR ON THE BACK OF THE PCM. IF AN "AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE DEVICE" CAUSES DAMAGE TO THE POWERTRAIN NECESSITATING A REPAIR, AT PRESENT OR IN THE FUTURE, A RESULTING REPAIR IS NOT REIMBURSABLE UNDER WARRANTY. REFER TO THE WARRANTY & POLICY MANUAL SECION THREE UNDER NON-REIMBURSABLE CONDITIONS. IF NO "AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE DEVICE" ARE FOUND, PERFORM DIAGNOSIS PER THE POWERTRAIN CONTROL/EMISSIONS DIAGNOSIS MANUAL.
------------

The law prevents a dealer from voiding the warranty. If a device causes a problem, the ONLY thing they can do is fail to cover that problem. They cannot void the entire warranty. And the key here is "if." Installation of the chip does not affect the warranty. If the chip breaks the engine, then the engine work is not covered. Chips don't do this. They merely retune the engine for premium gas and change shifting characteristics.

Additionally, the dealer cannot simply say "such and such part has caused the problem." They have to supply proof and the burden of proof is on them.

Why don't you quote the entire bulletin? You left out key words that don't support your position. As Danny said, it doesn't appear that the whole story is being told. I just got off the phone with Ford and was told that the installation and use will not void the warranty. Only if the after market part caused a break down would that particular break down not be covered but it would not void the entire warranty. I asked for written confirmation and it is being mailed. I also talked to Superchips and they are mailing me all copies of Ford's bulletins concerning this --- none of them state that chips void the warranty.

Ken Payne
[img src="/dcforum/User_files/webmaster/usaflag.gif" valign=top align=left] Ford Truck Enthusiasts Admin

 

I posted what I was told by two Ford dealers, the Federal Trade Commission, and the Ford Consumer Hotline. I am not a dolt, a liar or a troublemaker. I have no vested interest in this issue other than there's two sides to every story. You on the other hand do i.e. you sell chips. It is not a service bulletin. It is a letter Ford sent out (no I was not shown the letter) supposedly to dealerships nationwide. It specifically refers to chips and/or blowers. If opposing points of view are censored routinely, your validity is even more suspect. Danny is hell-bent on proving me wrong when I don't claim to be right. Use "common sense" on superchargers? "Common sense" told me it would void the warranty because it has the "potential" to do damage to the engine...so does a chip. I, therefore asked before I bought. The answer, several times from different people was NO.
I guess believing that is no different than Danny "insisting" we believe him.

If you're going to deny me the right to respond then I suggest your civilty is no greater. Pissed off doesn't cover why I posted more than one thread. If you noticed, they were all directed at guys buying new trucks.

This will be kept to this thread only. If you're going to deny me my right to post as a member I think you could have e-mailed your impromptu policy and advised me of the "spam" factor. The decision to continue would have then been my own undoing.

 

Okay Okay group hug! I for one will believe what I see in writing...official letter heads etc. NOT...what I am told was written and hearsay. I read all my warranty info. Nowhere does it state that installing aftermarket components will void my warranty. It does state that any damage caused by unapproved parts/accessories will not be covered under warranty, but the warranty is still in effect on the vehicle.

Keep On Truckin'!!!!!

 

I suppose the Federal Trade Commission repealed the law? And Ford changed their mind when they talked to me? As a matter of fact, the person at Ford asked me to name the dealers and the person who stated this information. I was specifically told that anyone who said such a thing is misinformed.

Please give me the names of the dealers and if you have them, the names of persons who told you this. Ford would like to know who they are.

Never said you were. I just think we're hearing all the details. Whoever told you that installation of a chip voided the warranty fits at least two of the three attributes you mentioned.

Not shown the letter? Sssssssssuuuuuuurrrrrrrpppppprrrrriiiiissssseeee!

Please present this mystery document.

Errrr.... your opposing point of view has not been removed from the boards.

I denied you the ability to spam. Also, this is private property --- posting is not a right.

Impromptu? If you'd been an actual participant on the boards prior to this you'd know plastering the same message all over isn't acceptable. Another user even pointed this out! Heck, I removed a set of NRA posts today that was cross-posted. Email you? It was far too late by the time I saw your blitz.

Ken Payne
[img src="/dcforum/User_files/webmaster/usaflag.gif" valign=top align=left] Ford Truck Enthusiasts Admin

 

The reply with quote link being conveiently gone on this reply I'll try and quote you as accurately as possible.

"I suppose the Federal Trade Commission repealed the law? And Ford changed their mind when they talked to me? As a matter of fact, the person at Ford asked me to name the dealers and the person who stated this information. I was specifically told that anyone who said such a thing is misinformed".

Sarcasm aside, they don't argue warranty policy? Ford said it last week and again this week. But hey, you're a "trade insider", go figure. The dealers are: Ada Ford, Lincoln, Mercury. Ada, Oklahoma. The service manager's name is Howard. Reynold's Ford. Norman, Oklahoma. The service manager's name is Ronald and the service writer's name is Robert. If they are misinformed then a whole bunch of people conspired to make it up.

"Please give me the names of the dealers and, if you have them, the names of the persons who told you this. Ford would like to know who they are".

Ssssssuuuuupppppppprrrrrisssssseeeeeeee! See above.

"Never said you were. I just think we're hearing all the details. Whoever told you that installation of a chip voided the warranty fits at least two of the three attributes you mentioned".

You never said it but you certainly intimated it. You're right...you are hearing all the details. I can't vouch for their wherewithall but they did say it.

"Not shown the letter? Ssssssuuuuuppppprrrrrriiiiissssseee!".

The "letter" was mentioned by the woman at Ford. She would not comment or answer any questions I posed. She simply stated she would not comment on Ford policy.

"Please present this mystery document".

You'd be a much bigger man, Mr. Payne, if you would treat this as a Ford Motor Company issue and not a personal one. No one wants a public "tongue lashing". Pissing you off has gotten me closer to the truth...not necessarily yours.

"Errr---your opposing point of view has not been removed from the boards".

Errr---if I was locked out from posting until I logged in as a non-member I'd say I was censored. Being unable to respond for posting three or four responses to legitimate threads isn't spam.
You've got the kill filter, not me.

"I denied you the ability to spam. Also, this is private property... posting is not a right".

Spam is moot. Private property that I chose to support. If you can't post...well, you get the idea.

"Impromptu? If you'd been an active participant on the boards prior to this you'd know plastering the same message all over isn't acceptable. Another user even pointed this out! Heck, I removed a set of NRA posts today that was cross-posted. Email you? It was far too late by the time I saw your blitz".

Errr---I have been an active participant sir. Not quite as prolific as you. Three or follow-up replys don't constitute a blitz, spam, or any other moniker you apply. However, as stated before, this will be kept to this thread. Another user was someone trying for brownie points. The NRA I ain't.


What is the name and title of the person you supposedly talked to at Ford and his/her phone number?

Why am I the person with the burden of proof? I thought your law said it was Fords'.

I thought you might also want to know they (see above) also said the aftermarket spark plugs and the aftermarket headers would also void my warranty irregardless of the the other equipment. To hear them tell it a bedliner could ruin an engine.

You believe what you've been told is credible evidence that chips and warranties mix well. I believe you have that right. I won't be intimidated, however, into believing I made up what I was told. I'm out $2,349.00 for something you say is illegal to do but was done nonetheless.

The intent, though blown totally out of context, was to let people who had new trucks or were in possession of nearly new trucks, know what Ford was saying to it's customers. Had you responded with something other than peremptory challenges to every remark made, dissecting paragraphs, etc. this thread would be useful to anyone in a similar situation. I'll pass along my experiences to anyone who requests it or wants an opinion. I do so honestly and with no ulterior motive. You talk peer to peer and I will. Condescention will be responded to in kind.

 

hec183

I'm not trying to bash anyone or get any brownie points here...just wanted to say that Ford can charge you for the damaged head legally by saying that your aftermarket SC caused the damage. They can not, however, void your vehicle warranty because of it. That is totally illegal and I can assure you they will hear about it. It's like putting big ole huge swampers on your truck and then they tell you your front end alignment or ball joint repair is not covered under warranty....the tires caused the damage. I can completely understand that. I would not be able to accept them telling me that my alternator replacement would not be covered because of the chip I installed. They may try, but that boat won't float. There are more than a few dealers out there that LOVE to get out of warranty work. They get paid squat for warranty as opposed to non warranty. I have a friend that used to be a tech at several dealerships. He saw first hand the kinds of things that go on regarding warranty work. In any case, I don't plan on continueing with this thread any more. I don't think this is the proper forum for what this thread has become. I would, however, be more than happy to continue the discussion with anyone who wishes in personal email.

Wayne
niteowl7 at earthlink.net
'93 F150 XLT 2WD Supercab
5.0, AOD, K&N, Gibson
And SOON to be SUPERCHIPPED!!!!