Hydraulic Hybrids - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums



Hydraulic Hybrids

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 06-14-2007, 07:05 PM
Torque1st's Avatar
Torque1st Torque1st is offline
Posting Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,260
Torque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to behold
Hydraulic Hybrids

Some information on a subject that has been mentioned here before:

Hydraulic Powertrains Propel These Hybrid Trucks
Not all hybrid vehicles rely on electric motors, batteries and wires. Some propel the vehicle with a combination of hydraulic pump-motors, fluid lines and accumulators -snip-

http://designnews.com/article/CA6451...rid=1922618187
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-14-2007, 07:54 PM
76supercab2's Avatar
76supercab2 76supercab2 is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,043
76supercab2 has a good reputation on FTE.76supercab2 has a good reputation on FTE.76supercab2 has a good reputation on FTE.
That covers the power transfer, storage and recovery. Doesn't talk about power generation. The next paragraph covers that:

"In the vehicles, diesel engines drive a hydraulic pump-motor..."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-14-2007, 10:43 PM
Torque1st's Avatar
Torque1st Torque1st is offline
Posting Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,260
Torque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to behold
You do have to read the entire article even if it is a long read. I can't copy the entire article into a post, I just copied the first couple lines. Nothing of interest or emphasis was meant by the first lines. Copying the first few lines is a common practice used by most news services.

Last edited by Torque1st; 06-14-2007 at 10:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-15-2007, 07:19 AM
76supercab2's Avatar
76supercab2 76supercab2 is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,043
76supercab2 has a good reputation on FTE.76supercab2 has a good reputation on FTE.76supercab2 has a good reputation on FTE.
I know. It's just interesting the way the article is written.

Looks like a good idea. I've some small experience with hydraulic drive systems. They work well and have many advantages.

There are some issues that have to be specifically delt with in the design. If the system is not properly designed, the drive motor can cavitate during an overdriven situation (IE compression braking when the vehicle wants to go faster than the motor is driving). If that happens, a runaway condition can be created. There are valves that will prevent this and I'm sure it's been considered. The engineering aspects of this design are interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-15-2007, 09:43 AM
rubydist's Avatar
rubydist rubydist is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 601
rubydist is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Its been a while since I worked with hydraulic power, but back then it was not very efficient at all compared to electric drives - have they improved efficiency that much in the past 5-10 years?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-15-2007, 12:07 PM
76supercab2's Avatar
76supercab2 76supercab2 is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,043
76supercab2 has a good reputation on FTE.76supercab2 has a good reputation on FTE.76supercab2 has a good reputation on FTE.
I think it's smaller and lighter than electrics when the system has regenerative braking.

Just curious, where are the inefficiencies or losses with a hydraulic drive system?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-15-2007, 03:34 PM
rubydist's Avatar
rubydist rubydist is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 601
rubydist is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
The inefficiencies are mainly from fluid leakage (internally) in the pumps and motors. Any clearance in the pump or motor is an internal leakage path. Then, there are the flow losses through the hoses/lines from pump to motor and back. Increasing pressure helps in some areas and hurts in others. Back in the day when I was doing hydraulic powered mowing equipment, we were often not much more than 50% efficiency for the system, as compared to 85+% for a mechanical driveline, for example. That's why I was suprised that the efficiencies had improved so much that its even a candidate, but apparently it must be the case.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-16-2007, 12:31 AM
Torque1st's Avatar
Torque1st Torque1st is offline
Posting Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,260
Torque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to behold
Ruby-

Were you using gear motors and pumps for your equipement? Larger equipment uses much more efficient pumps and motors. In the article they are using bent-axis motors and pumps.

Here is some Parker info, follow the links in the document to the bent axis pumps.
http://www.parker.com/pumpmotor/cat/...h/1553-int.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-16-2007, 10:45 AM
rubydist's Avatar
rubydist rubydist is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 601
rubydist is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
It was mostly gear motors/pumps or gerotor motors/pumps that we used. As I recall, the bent-axis piston stuff was more efficient, but much more expensive. Maybe the prices have become more in line for the 'value' equation now.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-18-2007, 09:19 AM
jimandmandy jimandmandy is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Running Springs CA
Posts: 5,228
jimandmandy has a great reputation on FTE.jimandmandy has a great reputation on FTE.jimandmandy has a great reputation on FTE.jimandmandy has a great reputation on FTE.jimandmandy has a great reputation on FTE.
You can tell there are losses because the fluid and all the parts get hot. The reason many new cars have electric instead of hydraulic power steering is efficiency.

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-20-2007, 09:11 AM
Torque1st's Avatar
Torque1st Torque1st is offline
Posting Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,260
Torque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to beholdTorque1st is a splendid one to behold
Electric power steering is more efficient because the PS system sits idling most of the time doing nothing. When the cars use 42V electrical systems you will see a lot more electric PS.

Gear pumps in general have terrible efficiencies. The crescent internal gear pumps do very well tho and they are much quieter.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-19-2007, 03:02 AM
J6Szczecin J6Szczecin is offline
Freshman User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 39
J6Szczecin is starting off with a positive reputation.
Just as a side note: Most high performance electric motors have efficiencies above 93% and electric motor drives have efficiencies in the mid to high 90's. The big advantage of hydraulic systems, from what I understand, is that they are more power dense, not energy dense nor more efficient, than electric hybrid systems.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-19-2007, 03:16 PM
aurgathor aurgathor is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bothell, WA
Posts: 2,894
aurgathor is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Whether a hydraulic system is more power dense or not is really irrelevant in case of a PS. With a hydraulic system, it always uses some power because it's constantly driven by the belt, but with an electric system, it only uses power when the steering wheel is actually moved.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-19-2007, 03:23 PM
J6Szczecin J6Szczecin is offline
Freshman User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 39
J6Szczecin is starting off with a positive reputation.
That is correct. I was mainly aiming my comment at the hydraulic hybrid powertrain versus electric hybrid powertrain, not at power steering. However speaking of electric power steering, does anyone use pure electric power steering or are they all just hydraulic pumps driven by electric motors instead of belt driven?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-19-2007, 08:52 PM
aurgathor aurgathor is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bothell, WA
Posts: 2,894
aurgathor is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
I believe some newer cars have pure electric PS.

BTW, here's a link to a 130 mpg car: http://www.valentintechnologies.com/default.asp (still in development, so how much of that is hot air and PR BS, and how much is reality, I do not know)
Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ford Fusion Hybrid Ranked Best Green Car for Your Greenbacks DerekShiekhi General Automotive Discussion 0 02-09-2016 04:46 PM
Question of the Week:Hybrid or Diesel F150? Patrick R. General Automotive Discussion 4 12-21-2015 03:50 PM
FS 2006 Mercury Mariner (Escape) Hybrid AWD rowekmr Vehicles for Sale 0 12-12-2015 01:30 AM
This Ford F-250 is One Helluva Hybrid DerekShiekhi 1999 to 2016 Super Duty 4 04-09-2015 02:25 PM
"Thirsty" for more... timmyboy76 1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel 3 03-15-2015 11:41 AM


Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums >

Tags
2009, f150, ford, hybrid, hydraulic

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:07 AM.


 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: