While towing my 3000LB trailer this weekend I noticed some turbo flutter on a few hills... I was running DP tuners 60 tow setting, 6637 air filter, stock downpipe into 4" exhaust....

So... I have done some looking and see all kinds of things...

1) compressor wheel upgrade
2) ATS compressor housing

And here is one I am a little confused about..

3) BDP turbine housing....

They offer this in non wastegated ( like the E vans ) and wategated... I was always under the impression that a wastegated turbo was the way to go, but why the non wastegated???? is there an atvantage to the non wategated??

Is a compressor wheel enough to deal with this issue? should I be upgrading to the ATS compressor housing? is there any atvantage to doing the turbine housing???

Out of these items, which all claim to get rid of turbo flutter, is there any that provides more power increase??

Thanks!!!
Bob

 

I think your confusing flutter with "surge". Flutter is the exaust sound, surge is the high picthed sound, form the intake side. ATS housing with the factory wheel yields best results, from what most say. I have an ATS on mine, and i had the same trouble, but only with the 10k mod, i didnt even get to a tuner yet. ATS housing cured my surge. The compressor wheel is cheaper, yields a little less boost, sounds alot louder from what others say. I have no experiance with the turbine side of things yet, thats on the list of to dos. Hope that helps!

 

Thanks!!! that helps the one questions...

Any advice on the BDP stuff????

 

im also interested in this. i have surge bad, and have to get it fixed. i have a wicked wheel (sitting on the bench) and was going to get the ats housing. but i read that w/ the ats housing you get better results w/ a stock wheel. is this true?

 

Yes, that seems to be the best setup: ATS housing and stock (99.5+) wheel.

As far as the turbine housing goes, I believe Kris (strokin_it7.3) had that on his rig, so maybe he can comment once he comes across this thread.

Changing the turbine housing can do a couple things: Going to a smaller housing will provide quicker spoolup, but less air on the top end. Going to a larger housing, it'll be slower to spool, but provide more air on the top end.

I think the best setup for the stock turbo to eliminate surge and run a bit more efficiently is to just install the ATS housing, and that's it. Might get by with just the wicked wheel, though, or that and a turbine housing.

 

I went the WW wheel route and kept the stock housing on both sides of the turbo.
What I've found with that setup is there is no surge ever unless I flog the truck hard enough to drive the EGT's to above 1400 degrees. I use the Diablo Predator Tow/Haul tune.
So for what I use the truck for, the surge is cured with just the WW.

 

Do you see any faster or slower spoolup with your settup and is boost close to the same
that is what i'm about to install on my truck

 

I guess i am ignorant to this, but i do not see how changing the exhaust housing can eliminate surge on the compressor side without changing anything on the compressor side. Unless it has something to do with less backpressure, less shaft speed?

I am "currently" running the 1.15 exhaust housing, a stock compressor wheel with ATS housing. I had the stock housing with WW, the ATS housing with WW and the ATS housing with stock wheel and i like the latter the best.

 

Kris are you still thinking of a new turbo. I thought I read a couple of weeks back that you were considering a new turbo? Is anything in the works?

 

This looks like its developing into a fun thread, so I'll throw in my 2$ worth (no cent sign on my key board), also accounts for inflation and all! The following is a composite from a number of discussions I've had over the years at about 6 different diesel shops, and some of my own opinions.

The compressor wheel that was OEM on the early 99 turbo (my truck) is also called the "wicked wheel", the "high performance wheel " by Banks, the "superior wheel" by Diesel Power Products, and possibly some other names as well, but as far as I've been able to tell by looking closely at them in the various shops I've visited, they're all the same wheel, and for brevity I'll just call refer to it as the "old wheel = OW" here.

These 3 pics Click for full size image Click for full size image Click for full size image are from my gallery, and show the OW from 3 different angles. The OW has a total of 10 blades that include 5 with full height and 5 that are about 2/3 full height and have correspondingly much less surface area and "air grabbing" capability. Also, the top view shows how the 5 sets of blades are not uniformly spaced, but rather staggered with 5 larger gaps between the 5 sets of closer spaced blades.

This pic Click for full size image is a side view of the compressor wheel from a 99.5 truck, which I'll refer to as the "new wheel = NW" in contrast to the OW. The NW only has 9 blades, they're all the same, full height, spaced uniformly, and all considerably larger that the largest blade on the OW.

So what conclusions can be drawn from the above differences in the physical characteristics between the OW and the NW? The rpm I'm referring to here, is the rpm of the compressor wheel not the engine. At low rpm which occurs at no boost and lower boost conditions (city driving), the NW will grab more air than the OW and flow more air through the improved new turbo which is larger and has a larger outlet. This provides cooler combustion and less NOx to meet the new EPA emission standard that came out in late 1998, and included a provision for a 20 mile test loop to simulate stop and go city driving. As far as I can tell, virtually every change to the various versions of the PSD, from the early 99 on including the 99.5, 6.0L, and 6.4L have been focused almost exclusively on meeting the ever stricter emissions standards!

The OW provides better anti-surge capability over a wider range of (compressor rpm) and boost conditions because the air flow velocity at the tips of the blades is a critical consideration. The blade tips are where the velocity is greatest, and where trans-sonic turbulence effects leading to stall occur. The larger blades on the OW work better (but not as good as the NW) at lower to moderate rpm, and the smaller blades with their lower tip velocity take over at higher rpm. With out getting into details, the NW with its uniform spacing has issues at certain rpm due to periodic resonances in air flow pressure that can develop under certain conditions, which are minimized with the different size blades and stagger on the OW.

I've towed with both the OW and the NW, and the NW has significantly more surge issues (periodic chuffa chuffa, etc..) when towing grades. Only reason for the data with the NW is because Ford rebuilds the old turbo using the NW, and I had to move south to avoid the cold before I could get it changed back to the OW.

I talked at length with an ATS tech guy as I was considering updating to a 99.5 config and using their housing, and I wanted to learn the details of just how their design helped with surge. In brief, it has to do with some differences in the internal porting, and their special external bleed ring for reducing turbulence in the vicinity of the compressor blades. When my update deal fell through, I even approached ATS to see if they would machine a special one-off bleed ring adaptor that would fit my turbo to see if that would help with my surge problem. Before I got their price, I stumbled across the TAG, and the rest is history that anyone with an interest can search my many posts on the subject for more details. In the latest issue # 56 of the TDR magazine, starting on page 150 is a good review of dyno testing of various air inlet systems both with and without the TAG installed. If I had surge, and didn't want to spend a lot of money, I'd first try the OW + TAG and see what result I got, I know I'm glad I did.

 

No change in spoolup speed. That is more of a function of how tight the exhaust is and how tight you have the wastegate valve set to.
You'll like that WW, it made all the difference for me.
It makes great boost if everything is set right.

 

You are correct the OW wheel in most cases will eliminate the surge problems experienced with modified trucks under load. Changing the exhaust housing to a larger one helps to lower EGTs under heavy load. The TAG smooths out the air and directs it intot he compressor wheel which on my truck makes the turbo spool quicker, lowered my required boost pressure at the same load and lowered my EGTs. With the setup I have running 120hp chip, 6.0L intercooler, OW with TAG-II and 1.0A/R exhaust housing, towing 10K in the mountians EGTs will not go above 1250F pre turbo.