wow black hat, I think you pegged that one he is even worse than me & my banks lol. 77f250sc you can
take this for what its worth but I run a banks (fuel device) along with a flash tuner, but I have no illusions as to what it is & why it is not a ''safe'' way to make power especially for a diesel novice as I assume you are (not a insulting statement unless you take it as sutch) please take our advice as our many years of trial & error have tought us to avoid problems like streached headbolts, repowdered connecting rods,burnt through headgaskets, shattered crankshafts & the occasional fragmented transmission, the reason we tell you these things is prevent you from having the same problems we did! as I could surely be doing something else right now and we don't have any attachment to Matt or LIPD other than his posts witch speek for themselves, so hang up the ego & listen & learn you will be better of for it!!! kindest reguards Jim.

 

Blackhat & Hotrodds. Don't know you from Adam. But you need to look up the words "alienate", "antagonize", and "defensive". Blackhat's statements immediately alienated me, he seemed so antagonistic, and he puts most anyone on the defensive. In Admin 101, they teach you its not what you say but how you say it. If you do not care how you post and, maybe, lack professional courtesy, we can try to look over it.

AND, the post started out about Predator and we were instructed how to ride a horse. A recent post was about how you experts tried to minimize "disinformation" about the quack hp boosters. Again, I was nailed for posting my experience and what I had read in a manual. FF250 simply started the whole thing with a simple question.

Why could not the answer be, "Hey guys, you need to stay away from the Predator. Let me tell you about some experiences and then you can make up your mind" or something like that.

Again, Good grief.

Blackhat, let me know the sites you inhabit so I cannot be made to look foolish when I ask a "newbie" question.

 

Alright, I'll add to this since you feathers are already ruffled. First off, BlackHat, HotRod, Myself, and Matt, post here to help other people. We do this out of kindness. It did not say that we have to respond or answer anyones question in a certain fashion or format. You asked, we answered. Obviously you came here because you want good honest answers, if not you would be on another board. One thing you have to understand, we continue to answer the exact same questions over and over again. When new people start talking about sales pitches, or whining about not being treated nicely, just exactly how do you think "well respected" members are going to respond? Lord knows HotRod and I don't see eye to eye on things, as well as many others I don't see eye to eye with. That does not change the fact that he is a respected member of this forum. You asked a question, we gave you an answer, you didn't like it, Oh well. No use crying about it. Like I said if you want good info, stick around. If you want to hear what you want to hear, go somewhere else. There are plenty of people here that are genuine in their quest for answers, and do not mind our roughness or gramar, or whatever else has hurt your little feelings.

 

Flyffyhauler,

You may want to re-read "77f250sc" original questions. I have pasted it above.
1) His first question was how the inline fuel module worked (ie fuel pressure or otherwise)

2) His second question was do they leave a footprint and will it harm his 5/100K engine warranty.

If you refer to my first post i answered all his questions and explained the reasons why he did not want an inline fuel module and further went on to tell him that the FMC field inspectors and diesel techs can tell if you have installed a tuner or inline fuel module.

My answers were straight forward and polite, and followed the rules of "Admin 101", and I made no reference to you or your first two posts.

You then chose to personally address your third post to me! Then you chose to go on and post false information after my initial post and i called you on it. You further tried to bring up that warranty issues would not be a problem, at which point i re-itterated my initial statement that aftermarket mods "CAN" void your warranty.

Please look up the word "CAN", "MANY" and then words "WILL" & "WIIL NOT" and then you will see the difference in my statements and yours concerning the warranty.

Then you went on to post about your panties being in a wad because your mis-information was shot down and your backhanded comment about not buying "Cheap Stuff", well just a little secret, just because something is the most expensive does not make it the best.

Lets see, you mentioned High Pressure Pump in two of your first three posts and how these are a "Known" failure problem. Then in your fourth post it only referred to the "Kleen Oil" filtration system you have and how great it is.
First High pressure pump failures in the 6.0 are rare and second, an oil filtration system has nothing to do with an inline fuel module or the Dr. P Predator.
So please explain to us all at FTE what this has to do with answering 77f250sc's questions on inline fuel devices, the DR. P Predator and what "Riding a Horse" and "Shooting Colts" has to do with Tuners, Chips and Warranties.

If your panties were ruffled because your mis-information was shot down in a hurry, then so be it. As a newbie you are always going to be at risk for posting mis-information if you don't do your homework, and those with the correct answers will shoot you down in a hurry.

You were the one who would not let it lay when the information was presented in front of you and chose to make a personal response to me!

Please refer to your posts in this thread, You NEVER ASKED a QUESTION until your 5th POST in this thread. And those questions were:
1) "What the hell does being a newbie have to do with my right to post my toughts about Predator?"
2)You have a bad hair day or are you always this offensive?"

You then posted your Third question in your 7th Post in this thread.
3)"Now tell me who else sells a chip or tuner or flash device that will work on an E350. Not an F350 but an E350."

I politely answered your question as to where to inquire about the device your requested.

As for your question in your last post in this thread, I inhabit to many sites to take the time to list them all.

How was "hotrodsdsl" offensive to you or anyone else in this thread, by agreeing with me and posting further evidence of the problems with inline fuel devices?
hotroddsl runs and inline fuel device (Banks) and he tells everyone to stay away from them and if you choose to run one be very careful as damage will occur.

Fluffyhauler you appear to be very thinned skinned and don't like it when people come along and shoot down your missinformation.

We have answered your questions and 77f250sc's questions, and you choose to keep posting how your feelings have been hurt

Please post your Ford related questions and continue to read and learn from the information on FTE, But please stop all the Whining

 

Good discussion was lost in all the crying, now that that is over, back to the regularly scheduled program. What I was referring to was the spikes that are not programmed. Yes elevated levels of BMEP across the board can and will lift heads. During gear changes and other severe load shift scenarios is when these spikes tend to appear most frequently. I guess the only real way to measure PFP would be via pass through data logging, I don't know if that is available. One would then lower the BMEP till the spikes in PFP were below known damage causing levels. I do not know if these parameters are looked at on a dyno, or during track runs or the like, but I would be very interested to see this data on the known brands of fuel devices, and tuners other than the SCT. To see how safe they actually are. If I was only born rich instead of so good looking........

 

Ryan,

Okay now i get where you where going with your original post. That makes perfect sense

Yes i would like to know if it is possible to obtain the PFP in relation to BMEP data in real time. I bet Matt may know at least for the SCT. Oh Matt our you reading this?

I may have to give him a call.

Yeah i know the feeling. Ain't it a Bitch!

 

We can only measure Peak Firing Pressure with the installation of true cylinder pressure measuring equipment fed through the glow plug ports. You have to get the engine hot, remove the glow plugs, then install the sending units.

We can "estimate" the approximate BMEP using the misfire monitors in the stock computer, but when I say estimate....I mean a damn lazy guess. The crank and cam sensors after run through the misfire monitors and then out of a contribution/balance test will give some representation of average BMEP to a trained eye.

High PFP is usually what starts eating at the gasket epoxy; then raised BMEP will pick the head up right off the block and allow compression to completely escape into the water jacket and puke.

 

Matt comes through again , another mystery solved.

You are truly a wealth of information my friend.

Thank you again for all the great info you provide.

 

OK Matt in your opinion is a 80hp tow module, using increase fuel pressure unsafe? If it is safe empty how about a factory max load. I know many folks using such devices with no issues.


Thanks,
one4
†

P.S. You product looks very good congrats on the hard work paying off.

 

Matt I figured as much that it is not as simple as it sounds. That is itself answers alot of questions.

 

BlackHat and Matt, here are a few things you might find interesting. It's old as dirt, but much like the wheel has not changes a bit, it is what it is.

MEP Mean Effective Pressure The average pressure on the piston. Actually it is the average difference between the pressure during compression and the pressure during the power stroke.

Brake Mean Effective Pressure Part of the indicated mean effective pressure (IMEP) used to overcome friction and other losses. The remainder which is used to generate Brake Horsepower, is BMEP. When brake Horsepower is known, BMEP is calculated form the formula...

BMEP= BHP x 33,000
LAN
L= stroke in feet
A= area of the piston in square inches
N=number of power strokes per minute

To give you an example of BMEP vs PFP (peak firing pressure) and engine that has a BMEP rating of 105 psi would realize a PFP of 750 psi. (a small jump in BMEP yields a large jump in PFP) Quite a difference between these 2 numbers. Now you know how the head gaskets get cut so easily in very short order if you receive a cylinder contribution code, as I doubt they are logged in PFP.

As far as balancing goes (this is for Matt) I mispoke earlier. The correct method is as follows. With all cylinders receiveing the max ammount of fuel with load and boost stable (very critical, thinking eddy curent dyno here) BMEP or PFP is recorded for each cylinder. (datalog needs to be a minimum 100 ignition events to record a real average) Added all together then divided by the number of cylinders. That is the number you are then shooting for. Adjust the Highest cylinder to the average then the next highest, then the next and so on and so forth. It should NOT be necessary to adjust more than half of the injectors. On any engine that is being built and run for the first time it is imperative that the balancing be performed at 50% load so the engine is run the remainder of breakin balanced. Once sastisfactory initial breakin has been achieved I would check balance at 70% 85% and again at 100%. This will tell you if your fuel curve is accurate and you have a proved out fuel table. Anything below 40% should not be looked at as far as contribution codes are concerned, as at this minimum load the data is inaccurate at best. Typically in a run state 45-50% load is where a air/fuel curve should start taking over and be adjusted per feedback of the burntime averages.

 

Ryan,

Great Post, putting that in my folder.

 

So if I don't like math I should own a Dodge cus you just drive them?

Just kiddin' I couldn't resist. Interesting stuff!

one4
†

 

drive them back to the dealer you mean?

 

OUCH!!! Good one.

That is a likely outcome with any of the newer trucks. It seems that the big 3 all spend their fair share of time doing warranty work. What ever happened to the KISS theory. Oh wait the EPA disposed of that.


one4
†